Snape's part in death of Sirius

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 107893

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nkafkafi" <nkafkafi at y...> wrote:

> 
> Neri:
> It should be several hundred miles from Scotland to London. 
>  ...edited...

Asian_lovr2:

Approximately 450 miles from my best guess location of Hogwarts in an
unpopulated area of the highlands to central London.

A LONG time ago, myself and one other person in particular had an
extended discussion on the nature of Thestral flight. We each
professed different methods but agree that Thestrals possess some form
of Magical flight. Not just magic in that they are able to fly, but
magical in the nature of the flight itself. 

The shortest and simplest summary, is that for a fraction of a second
each second the Thestral jump to 'warp-speed' then back to normal
speed. This gives the impression of real-time flight (wind, time,
distance) while at the same time allowing time and distance
compression. Result is that you feel like you are traveling 100 mph,
but are functionally traveling at 300mph. (Note: 450 miles = 1.5hrs at
300mph) 

Two hours travel time seems excessive based on my interpretation of
the fight. One hours seems closer to my read.

As a side note, Today July 27 
Begin civil twilight       5:19 a.m.  
End civil twilight         9:19 p.m.    


> ...edited...

> 
> Neri:
> The problem starts when Snape contacts the Order the first time. He 
> already knows that Harry believes in Sirius being hostage at the DoM 
> enough to break into Umbridge's office. ... Snape ... suspect that
> Harry had a mind contact with the Dark Lord? ... Yet he tells HQ 
> nothing about it. 

Asian_lovr2:

We don't know that. At that point, Harry believe Sirius has been taken
to the Ministry by Voldemort. Snape intent is to verify that Sirius is
at Grimmauld Place which he does. However, we don't know the exact
contents of that conversation. Remember at this time it's about 6pm;
still daylight, and the Ministry is probably still occupied, so the
whole idea is pretty far fetched. 

Snape may very well have relayed to Lupin and Sirius that Harry
thought Sirius was at the Ministry of Magic. That would not have been
cause for anyone to rush off and do anything. The logical next step
would have been to simply tell Harry that Sirius was safe. 

Unfortunately, since Harry was in Umbridge and the I-Squad's custody,
telling Harry would have to wait for an clear opportunity. The next
thing Snape knows is that Umbridge has marched off into the wood with
Harry and Hermione on some wild goose chase. Into the wooda with
Umbridge is certainly cause for concern on serveral points, but not
necessarily cause for immediate action. Snape must, afteral, maintain
his front for the I-Squad, and as much as he may despise Umbridge, I
don't think Snape would concluded the Umbridge would be foolish enough
to take Harry and Hermione to the woods with the intention of doing
them harm. 

So, we have students in the custody of an armed teacher and high
ministry official, even though they may be in the woods, that's not
necessarily cause for panic or drastic action. So... he waits.

Certainly, after an hour he would start to wonder and worry, but still
not time to panic yet. Not much later, he would become concerned
enough to contact the Order with his suspicion that Harry would
attempt to travel to London, then he went to search for Harry. 

If Harry wasn't found, and Snape knew Harry's friends entered the
woods to aid Harry, and they too could not be found. Now it's time to
panic. So, he marshals the troops and sends them off to the Ministry
to rescue Harry and friends if need be. However, even at this time,
they have no real evidence that Harry is actually at the Ministry. He
could just be lost in the woods. But the logical course of action is
to check the Ministry. 

I see no problem with that timeline. 

I'll say this even though I know it doesn't need to be said, but we
have to remember that as readers we are priviledge to information and
insight that the characters don't have. When we analyse this, we have
to do it from Snape's limited knowledge and his limited ability to act
under the circumstances.


> 
> Neri:
> ...edited...
> 
> JKR's mind? There is perhaps not much indication that Snape was 
> delaying in JKR's mind. OTOH there is also not much indication that, 
> in JKR's mind, Snape is a responsible man who gives a fig about what 
> happens to the blasted Potter, or to any Gryffindor. ...edited...
> Please explain Snape's actions and timing in the above case.
> 
> Neri

Asian_lovr2:

We must also temper the timeline with the fact that Snape is not an
overly emotional man; he is not prone to panic or sudden rash
decisions, and he is hampered by not being able to tip his hand, or
reveal his true allegiance to anyone. 

We don't know that happened or what was said when Snape first
contacted Sirius, but I doubt that it went like this -

Snape: Lupin! Lupin! It's important that I speak with Sirius immediately.

Lupin: He's here, I'll run and get him.

Sirius (comes runnning): What! What is it! What's happened?

Snape: Nothing. ...bye.

Logically, Snape would give them a basic explanation. But as I said
before, no one would see this a cause for panic. Especially when Harry
was currently in Umbridge's custody, and not in a position to take any
rash actions.

Later Snape finds the Umbridge, Harry, and Hermoine have gone into the
woods. This may have been before or after Ron and friends escaped from
the I-Squad. Especially if before the escape, this trip to the woods
in not cause for panic; Umbridge is with them, and she is armed. Only
after sufficient time has passed, and addition fellow students have
joined them is it time to worry. Snape searches the forest, find no
one, suspect Harry may have found a way to get to London, and notifies
the Order. Now is the time for serious concern, but still not really
time for panic. 

As I said before, you can't analyse this from the reader's perspective
because we have knowledge and insight that the characters don't. You
have to make a reasonable analysis based on the information that Snape
had available to him. That has to be tempered with knowing that Snape
is not prone to panic or impulsive action, and that has to be
re-tempered with Snape not being able to show any outward concern for
Harry in front of non-Order members. 

Just a thought.

Steve/asian_lovr2 - soon to have a new username b_boymn