Snape and the MOM

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 93010

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman"
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
> Carol:
> > I also don't think that Snape has to report everything that 
> > happens at Hogwarts, so there's no reason for him to say anything 
> > about Umbridge. He also would have no way of *instantly* notifying 
> > LV that Harry was missing
> 
> Susan:
> How do we know that, Carol?  Didn't DD tell Harry at the end of OoP 
> that Order members have "more reliable means of communication" than 
> fireplaces?  He didn't explain what those means are but left it open 
> for a futute revelation.  (Fawkes, for one, seems to have some 
> pretty powerful magical abilities; I wonder if he can't provide 
> almost instantaneous communication?)  Anyway, if DD & the Order have 
> such means, why might not Voldy & his henchmen/women?  
> 

The means of communication DD talks about are for members of the
Order, not for Snape communicating with LV. Whatever means Snape has
for communicating with DD (and I think he must have used them to
summon DD to Grimmauld Place on the night of the MoM battle), we can
be sure he doesn't use the same means to communicate with LV. He's
certainly not going to communicate with LV using Fawkes. We can also
be pretty sure that Crouch Jr. communicated with LV by owl (the eagle
owl dream almost certainly refers to a real eagle owl that Harry sees
flying over the Forbidden Forest--I can look up the quote if you need
it). I'm still convinced, BTW, that Snape's primary means of
communication with LV and the DEs is some sort of arrangement with
Malfoy. If there were some sort of instrument in his office that he
uses, wouldn't Crouch Jr. have found it in his search?


Carol:
> Anyway, I don't think he reported to Voldemort that night; he
> was too busy contacting other people and searching the forest for
> Harry. 
> 
> Susan:
> Totally ignoring the argument at hand (whether Snape did or didn't 
> contact Voldy that night), I would argue only that if more efficient 
> means of communication exist, as DD said, why would time constraints 
> prevent Snape (or any other adult player that night) from sending 
> out important communication?  How much time does it take to jot a 
> note or send a messenger?  

Carol:
But that wouldn't be *instant,* which was my point above. 
 
Susan:
> (For what it's worth, on the argument at hand, I don't think Snape 
> did contact Voldy that night, but I do think he might have been able 
> to had that been his choice.)

Carol:
In which case, he'd be in a lot of trouble with LV, right? That was
the original argument.

BTW, I've almost lost track of what we're arguing here. My main
position is still:

1) Snape was the "one who has left us forever" (a correct judgment on
LV's part, though the part about being killed was forestalled. See
point 2.)
2) Snape, probably through Malfoy, persuaded LV that he couldn't
apparate to the graveyard and that he's still faithful.
3) This partial truth enabled Snape to continue his work for the
Order, which apparently consists of finding out what the Dark Lord is
telling his Death Eaters.
4) With LV's *real* henchmen defeated in the battle of the MoM, LV
(and possibly the imprisoned Malfoy) will look for a scapegoat and
will probably realize that Snape must be in some way responsible for
sending in the "enemy," which will return him to the "left us forever"
position. (This is the point I've been arguing in this particular thread.)
5) Even if that doesn't happen, Snape's task of finding out what LV is
saying to his Death Eaters will almost certainly become much more
difficult and dangerous now that his chief contact, Malfoy, is in Azkaban.

I realize that the part about his chief contact being Malfoy is an
assumption but there's canon to support it. I haven't read any
arguments that convincingly contradict any of these points, and I
think the recent chat lends additional support to the original key
point, number one. I have read your arguments, Susan. They just don't
seem strong enough to convince me. If it matters, I'll be quite happy
if points 4 and 5 turn out to be wrong, but I don't think they will.

At least you and I agree that Snape is brave, intelligent, and loyal
to Dumbledore. Maybe we should let it rest there?

Carol