Apparating into the Ministry...

[catherinemckiernan]

No: HPFGUIDX 93755

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "kashelkar" <kashelkar at y...> 
wrote:
> Catherine said:  --snipped--
Stuff on why the DEs, not LV go to the Ministry. 
> 
> kashelkar's reply:
>  
>  Here I'd like to clarify certain things:  The entire OOP book 
>  revolves around the prophecy.  The plot involving the prophecy and 
>  Voldy's desire to capture it, is the backbone of the book.  Hence 
> it must be made clear beyond any reasonable doubts that it was 
>  IMPOSSIBLE for Voldy (for some reason or other) to go and grab the 
>  prophecy himself at any point of time.  However, this is not very 
>  clear in the book.

Catherine McK – You're right, it isn't. However until Rookwood told 
LV that the prophecy could only be collected by its subjects, LV 
didn't need to go and get it himself. He tried an indirect approach 
that would discredit the Ministry (Imperiused!Bode). So at least 
until the DE escape from Azkaban, Voldemort assumes that anyone can 
get the prophecy and he doesn't need to risk himself. Only after the 
conversation with Rookwood does he need to try another way. Harry is 
not his first plan.

>  
>  I don't agree with Catherine's statement:  "...So perhaps the DE's 
>  were not entirely sure that it would be possible to get as far as 
>  they did without raising any alarm at all. ....."  
> 
> Kashelkar's reply:
>  
> Obviously, if the DEs were discovered entering the MoM, the 
> security there would be tightened, and even Voldy won't be able to 
> break-in afterwards.  So, this was their first and last chance, and 
> hence the DEs must have done a lot of homework on this.  
Informations 
> such as anti-burglary spells put on the MoM, the security persons, 
> their habits etc etc. had to be gathered and analysed properly. 
> Obviously, no one would be able to break into the office of a 
> ministry as and when he wishes.  And here we also must assume this, 
> that the break-in at the MoM was carefully planned and executed by 
> Voldy and DEs. And therefore, I must say that it was most simple 
for 
> Voldy to plan his own journey to and fro MoM, rather than plan HP's 
> journey.  In execution of any plan there are numerous things which 
> can go wrong. However, when you yourself are a part to the 
execution, 
> you can keep atleast some of the things under control.  (eg.  what 
if 
> Harry couldn't get any transport?? what if some professor at 
Hogwarts 
>  stopped him??  What if Snape was able to contact him with the news 
> that Sirius is safe?? What if he could not escape from Umbridge?? 
>  What if Hermione, after all, was able to contain him, and he 
> decided not to go???  What if he met with an accident on his way 
and 
> could not make it to the MoM??? There are so many ifs and buts...  
> All these (and many more) questions must get the right answers for 
> Voldy's plan to succeed and he doesn't have any influence over 
these 
> events at all.  If Harry doesn't go to MoM that time, he'd soon 
come 
> to know abt the reality, and then in future he'd never react to 
> such 'visions'in haste.)
> > 
>  And hence, I feel that it was most natural for Voldy to plan the 
>  break-in at MoM in such a manner that He himself would be able to 
> go there and grab the prophecy.  I don't think that this was a 
> difficult task, a little more caution, a little more carefulness 
and 
> he gets what he desires.  He could disguise himself in different 
ways 
> for this (invisibility cloak, polyjuice potion etc).  Bringing HP 
to 
> MoM to do all this looks highly far-fetched.  Once you think this 
> way, the climax of the book is not fun to read at all (unlike CoS, 
> where the plot is very convincing and the climax is fun to read 
again 
> and again).

Catherine McK responds
 I'm not snipping because I think I need all 
Kashelkar's well-thought out argument to make the point. It is (from 
our present knowledge) far more difficult for Voldie to get Harry to 
take the prophecy that for LV to do it himself. So why does he get 
Harry to do the deed? To my mind there are three possible answers – 
1)	JKR didn't plot well enough.
2)	There were additional problems for Voldemort, which will be 
revealed at a later date
3)	Someone was giving Voldemort bad advice. We know that 
Voldemort cannot gather all the information he makes his decisions on 
himself, and sometimes that information turns out to be wrong, e.g. 
plan (a) was based on the fact that Avery believed Imperiused!Bode 
could get the prophecy. After its failure, presumably Rookwood then 
said "My Lord, it must be you or Potter". What happened then we don't 
know. Maybe LV did intend to whisk in himself to get it until another 
DE suggested that was a  high-risk approach. A cunning, ambitious DE 
who didn't actually want the plan to succeed, and knew his way around 
the Ministry, for example (yes, I'm back on my traitor!Lucius hobby 
horse).

Hmm. Must reread OotP. 

Catherine McK