Dumbledore's role in Sirius' death was Re: ESE!Snape (Was loads of other stuff)

[mnaper2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 98994

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "scarletsorceress666" 
scarletsorceress wrote:
> Dumbledore could be seen as reaffirming that thought to Harry when he 
> mentions to Harry that Sirius was too old and too wise to rise to 
> Snape's bait fully. That Sirius knew what was at stake deep down and 
> was more than prepared for his sacrifice. So was the lesson to think 
> before you act a painful lesson but one Harry needs to learn and not 
> to trust all you are told, a lesson he should have learned from his 
> encounter with Tom Riddle in CoS?
> 
> I also think that Sirius realised that he was a liability to Harry 
> and that perhaps he, Sirius, was getting in the way. Harry wondered 
> several times what Sirius would think about something, yes he was 
> helping Harry with information but Harry was also giving up some 
> ground to Sirius and Sirius knew Harry was the one who had to do as 
> Ron said in Book one, it's you Harry, you alone or words to that 
> effect. Had Sirius stayed as you say he would have endangered Harry 
> more?  But perhaps Sirius knew he could help Harry from the other 
> side of the veil too and finally got to make his sacrifice and pay 
> back his friends trust in him, by going beyond the veil, knowing he 
> can't come back, but on that side being able to help Harry, somewhat 
> as James and Lily did in GoF. 
> 
> Thus continuing the theme of sacrificing oneself for the love of 
> others. 

Ally:

I'm a little late to the thread - I can never keep up with this 
group!!  But, I will say that I find it unlikely that we will learn 
either of those things.  I very much like the idea of DD as a 
calculating man who is wise enough to know he must make sacrifices, 
but I find it hard to believe he would in some way arrange for the 
death of Sirius.  It's a level of personal betrayal towards Harry 
that, while I find very realistic for a leader in war time, I am not 
sure JKR would write.  Although who knows, she has cautioned us 
against applying too much Star Wars to HP, and I like many view DD as 
very Obi Wan.

But even if he did it, I don't think Sirius knew he was going to 
sacrifice himself b/c of the look of fear on his face as he fell and 
his reactions when he went in.  I would think that if he knew he was 
going to his death, given his belief that some things are worth dying 
for, that he would not be afraid.  I would have expected his 
expression to be "steely with resolve" or "sad and resigned" - 
something other than surprised and then afraid.

--Ally