Occlumency: Relax or resist? (Was: CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 29, Career Ad

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 117732



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> 
> <entire post snipped by Lupinlore>
> If we could eliminate the concept of martial-arts based relaxation, 
it
> would help to eliminate a great deal of confusion. No analogies,
> please;

Why not?  After all, argument from analogy is often insightful and 
quite useful.  I grant you it has its flaws, but so do all argument 
forms.

> Again, if you want to persuade me that I'm mistaken, you can't just
> snip my arguments and sweep them all away with your own opinion. 

I think we are talking past each other here, Carol.  I'm not trying 
to persuade anyone that they are mistaken.  As I believe Kneasy has 
observed, if you look at the history of discussion threads on this 
list, particularly with regard to Snape, almost no one changes their 
mind about anything (Siriusly Snapey Susan being about the only 
exception).  The only person who ever moves anyone is JKR herself, 
and I suspect that is the case in this instance.  Until she issues as 
definitive ruling, if she ever does, those of us who believe Snape 
was a semi-hysterical, hypocritical sadist in Occlumency will not be 
phased by any number of quotes or argumentation, and the same goes 
for those who have a more positive view of him.

You
> have to actually answer them using canon and logic. (Analogies don't
> prove anything and are in fact a logical fallacy.)

Oh, of course analogies are a valid way of arguing.  As I said above, 
they have their weakness, but so do all argument forms, including 
those based on quotes, which after all may be taken out of context, 
misinterpreted, or otherwise misused in any number of ways.

So, to answer you in the same vein that you answered me, if you don't 
find what I said persuasive, I'm not at all surprised, as I wasn't 
trying to persuade you.  If you don't like analogies and prefer 
quotes, that is of course your right.  However, please, and I mean 
this politely, don't expect everyone on this list to conform to your 
ideas of what an argument should or should not look like.

Lupinlore