envy vs. jealousy?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 116015


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" <delwynmarch at y...>
wrote:
> 
> Paul wrote :
> "1. Jealousy is the feeling of anger or bitterness which someone has
> when they think that another person is trying to take ... away from 
> them. ...(or).. they wish that they could have the qualities or 
> possessions that another person has.
> 
> 1. Envy is the feeling you have when you wish you could have the
> same thing or quality that someone else has. ...
>  
>  		
> From the above is quite clear that in GOF and in general Ron is 
> rather jealous than envious as a person."

 
> Del replies :
> I won't ceased to be amazed at how 2 people read exactly the same
> thing and come to opposite conclusions :-)
> 
> From what I can see from the definitions you've provided, Paul, I 
> see Ron as envious, not jealous. ...edited...
> 
> In GoF in particular, Ron never says that he wishes he had been the
> only one entering the Tournament. He only wishes Harry had *shared*
> his secret about how to get past the Age-line with him. ...edited...
> 
> Del

bboyminn:

Here is a link back to one of my discussions of this situation-

From:  "bboy_mn" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Sun Sep 8, 2002  10:50 pm
Subject:  Re: Ron: GoF: Betrayed or Jealous? Revisited.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/43801

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/43919

True, the book, through Hermione's words, leads us to believe Ron is
jealous, and in the second post listed above, I speculate on how
Hermione could have very easily reached that erroneous conclusion. But
in the first post listed above, in the one and only time Ron is
allowed to speak for himself, he tells very different story. 

I think it is clear from Ron's own statements that Del is right, Ron
feels betrayed because he thinks Harry didn't include him, and I make
that case in detail in the first post listed above.

True Ron does have elements of envy and even some elements of
jealousy, no one is denying that, but he's human, who wouldn't have
those same feelings under the circumstances. But the key is not is Ron
envious or jealous in the same sense that almost anyone would be, but
the question is, is that what is driving his falling out with Harry in
GoF. I still say when Ron is allowed to speak for himself, he does not
speak of envy but betrayal of their friendship. 

Given that I feel that the elements of envy and jealousy that do exist
in Ron are well within the range of what any normal person would, has,
and does experience, I severly doubt that they are sufficient to drive
Ron to intentionally betray Harry at some future time. His friendship
and loyalty far out weigh any sense of envy. 

In that same vein, I think Ron's problems with money are also well
within what would be normal for anyone under the circumstance. I've
been poor, it's not fun. So, I seriously doubt that we will ever see
Ron betray Harry for money. Just not going to happen.

You heard it here first... well actually, you heard if way back when.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)