Tale of Two Wands - Fawkes as Supplier - When Created?

[macfotuk at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 112952

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "finwitch" <finwitch at y...> 
wrote:

<Snipped>

> Angie:
> > 
> > However, simply because Fawkes gave two feathers doesn't mean he 
gave 
> > both of them at the same time.  Ollivander did not call the 
first  
> > feather "its twin."  He called the first feather, "its 
brother".  
> > My "brother" and I weren't born at the same time, but twins 
would 
> > be.  

<snip>

Mac now: Nice point Angie - agreed by me now you make me think about 
it.

<snip>
 
> > I see these possibilities:
> > 
> > 1)  Both tail feathers were given at the same time, which means 
they 
> > were given by Fawkes prior to Tom Riddle's entry into Hogwarts, 
which 
> > in turn, means that Harry's wand had been languishing in 
Ollivander's 
> > shop for over 50 years(?!) at the time he purchased it.

<snip>

Mac now: Yes, could be, but seems unlikely, even though Ollivander's 
is LONG established and there's something odd about his appearance 
(read description in SS/PS) suggesting he's both old and not quite 
like other wizards.

<snip> 
   
> >     However, simply because Fawkes gave two feather doesn't mean 
they 
> > HAD to use both of them, does it?  It would seem to me that this 
> > would be an unusual event, to be avoided, given the potential 
for 
> > forcing the Priori Incantatem. To me, there must have been a 
reason 
> > for doing so; I see DD's hand all over this.  

<snip>

Mac now: Yes, me too. DD must have known. Fawkes is HIS pheonix.

<snip>

> Finwitch:
> 
> I don't know if it <i>matters</i> whether the tail-feathers given 
at
> the same time or not! 

<snip>

Mac now: IMO it REALLY does (see below).

<snip>

> 
> Finwitch:
> 
> Well, Ollivander says that Fawkes *gave* the feathers, whereas he
> mentions having pulled the unicorn hair out, not about the unicorn
> *giving* it.
> 
> Also, Harry & co in CoS, and Dumbledore in OOP - hang of Fawkes'
> tail-feathers, when the bird carries them! AND it is said that
> Phoenixes can carry heavy loads and fast at that...
> 
> A person can, therefore, safely HANG, with full weight, on a 
feather
> of a phoenix, and it does NOT come off. Therefore, I doubt that
> Ollivander *could* pull out a phoenix feather! I see Fawkes giving 
a
> feather by simply dropping it to Ollivander (or, more likely, to
> Dumbledore).

<snip>

Mac now: I agree with this (good point Finwitch). Fawkes volunteers 
(if he chooses) - but is NOT forceable.

<snip>

(Finwitch again:)

> What I'm wondering, is the wand that did not choose Harry: Maple 
with
> a phoenix feather - and THAT phoenix wasn't Fawkes, since only two 
of
> Fawkes' feathers were ever made into wands (Harry and Tom)! Does 
that
> wand, perhaps, belong to Neville? I hope Book Six tells us whether
> Neville's wand has phoenix feather as a core!
> 
> Finwitch

Mac now: I recently re-read this bit too and spotted that *a* 
pheonix feather wand hadn't been *the one* for Harry. It makes me 
think about whether DD might not give Neville an unknown advantage 
by having a THIRD feather donated by Fawkes for his specific use (as 
a wand of course) in book 6. I have a theory (earlier post 
somewhere) that the prophecy could STILL apply to both Harry and 
Neville, i.e. Harry for one part and Neville for the repeat - it 
never made sense to me that it is SO repetitious and, given the view 
that the last part was the bit LV's spy missed hearing, it seemed to 
me that it was mostly repetition that would have been missed unless 
the spy was discovered REALLY early on into the prophecy.

Anyway, as usual I digress. What I had wanted to stress was an 
earlier post which (as many do) went by the board and was not 
commented on (message 112280) which was about the wands but may have 
been ignored because of its subject heading.  Anyway, here's the 
repeat:


<snip>

"" ... Don't ask me how/why, but suddenly this post makes me ask
the question that if a pheonix feather from *Fawkes* is as special
as we all seem to think it IS, then how is it that Tom Riddle was
given the first wand in the first case?

Is it that the SECOND feather became important only once the 1st
wand had turned out to be in the wrong hands or was it that somehow
Tom Riddle was selected to receive this wand because he was a
fantastically promising student and/or had a terribly sad
and 'deserving' background before Hogwart's? The latter would be
really interesting.

I am also reminded, because wandwoods are mentioned, of the
discussion about Harry's scar (shape of a lightning bolt i.e. the
rune eihwaz, associated with yew trees - a dark magical wandwood and
the one used for the 1st wand - LV's). Harry's is made of Holly
which is associated with good (redemption?) - worth reading at the
link below (Warning - long!) if you haven't encountered these ideas
(scar/runes/wandwoods, LV/Harry connection) and lots of other good
things besides such as Hermione's frustration at her mistake on
runes exam (ehwaz vs eihwaz - GoF or OotP - can't recall which) -

http://www.cosforums.com/archive/index.php/t-16412.html ... "

SO, to conclude this NEW post - Just WHY did Riddle get such a 
special wand in the first place? and Does DD blame himself for the 
mistake that a feather from HIS pheonix turned out to be in part the 
instrument of such mayhem in the hands of 'the most evil/powerful' 
wizard that ever lived'?