The "row" in the forest--what Snape doesn't want to do any more (Was: Mr. Snape

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 136158

Valky wrote:
> <snip>
> Given this, it is likely that when Dumbledore and Snape argued in
the forest Dumbledore was hoping for Snape to confess his UV, DD never
> directly asks these things, as we know. It was probably something
> like, "Is there something you wish to tell me Severus..." <snip> But
in any case Snape accuses Dumbledore of taking something
> for granted and says he wants out, so both lead to the same thing,
> Dumbledores massive brainpower was accumulating plenty of evidence
> about Snape and he *made* Snape go through with it even though he
> *did* know there was something else to it, even though Snape, the
> Snape he trusted and believed was loyal, didn't want to stick around
> for it. Dumbledore continues to say I trust Severus completely, even
> after SS says he wants out when DD prods him to confess his UV. <snip>
> 
> Also Hagrid says that Dumbledore was angry with Snape, but he
doesn't tell us Dumbledore's actual angry words. Could they be, "You
will do as you have promised, Severus." And while Snape thought
Dumbledore was talking about the promise he had made to DD, Dumbledore
knew that he, himself, was actually talking about the Unbreakable Vow.

Carol responds:
It seems certain to me that Dumbledore knew about the Unbreakable Vow.
First, he is not surprised when Harry mentions it, indicating that
Snape has already told him about his confrontation with Draco. Second,
Dumbledore knows that Draco has been trying to kill him all year. He
has not suspected anyone but Draco or been misled as to Draco's
intended victim. He also knows or suspects that Draco has an
accomplice outside Hogwarts, information that could be deduced from
what Snape (or Harry) told him. Snape's conversation with Draco occurs
between the necklace incident and the poisoned mead (a flawed plan
that is probably already in motion since it's christmas time and the
mead is supposed to be a Christmas present). Almost certainly Snape is
following Dumbledore's orders in speaking to Draco, not acting on his
own because of the vow. Certainly he is not doing it because he wants
to steal Draco's "glory." His idea of "helping" Draco, up to that
point, has been to put his two accomplices in detention. Now he is
forced, probably by Dumbledore, to take more direct action. At any
rate, Draco's party crashing gives him an opportunity that can't be
passed up. 

When Harry tells Dumbledore about this conversation, Dumbledore is not
only not surprised, he tells Harry that it's likely he understands
more from it than Harry does, a statement that the reader ought also
to consider. In the unlikely event that Dumbledore has not already
heard this story from Snape, or has heard a different version from
Snape, he would certainly question him and find out the truth about
the Unbreakable Vow. You don't find out that a member of your staff
has taken a vow that will result in his death if it's broken and
ignore that information. So Dumbledore knows, at the very least, that
Draco is trying to kill him and that Snape has taken an Unbreakable
Vow to help and protect him. Surely Dumbledore knows, even without the
being told the third clause, that "help" was intended by Narcissa to
mean "help Draco kill Dumbledore." Yet he continues to trust Snape.
Conclusion: Snape has already told him exactly what Harry has told
him, he knows exactly the terrible bind that Snape has placed him in,
and he knows that Snape's definition of "help" differs from Narcissa's.

As for "Of course that is what he would tell you, Draco, but--" we
don't even need the "but" to know that this statement is true. The
other option is "Dumbledore has told me to watch you," which Snape
knows would be greeted by Draco with the utmost contempt. He would
regard Snape as Dumbledore's lap dog rather than a double agent trying
to rob Draco of his "glory." Better to let Draco continue to think
that Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore is all an act.

Snape tries a variety of tactics in this conversation, warning Draco
DE to DE that he has made an elementary mistake and is behaving like
an amateur (which leads to Draco's resentment); expressing concern for
Draco's (and Crabbe's and Goyle's) education (which leads to Draco's
contemptuous remark that DADA is a farce--"as if *we* need to be
protected from the Dark arts!"); Legilimency (which leads to Draco's
clumsy and obvious attempt at Occlumency); the question, "What are you
trying to hide from *your* master?" which leads to the disrepectful
answer that he's trying to hide it from Snape (for the entirely wrong
reason already cited, that Snape wants to steal the infamy he mistakes
for "glory"). Snape then tries the confidential and truthful
statement, sotto voce, "I'm trying to help you, Draco. I've made an
Unbreakable Vow to help and protect you." Unfortunately for all
concerned, Draco is supremely unconcerned that Snape has put his life
on the line. Perhaps he doesn't know what an Unbreakable Vow is; more
likely he doesn't care about anyone's predicament but his own.
Realizing that the interview is going nowhere, Snape tries one last
tactic, expressing understanding for Draco's feelings about his
father, which leads to Draco storming out the door. The interview has
been a fiasco. There is no point in making a second attempt.

No doubt Snape has told Dumbledore exactly this. "I don't know what
he's doing. He won't talk to me. I've lost my influence over him. Even
mentioning the Unbreakable Vow didn't do any good. There's nothing I
can say or do to stop him."

It's possible, too, that Snape is afraid that trying to stop him will
make matters worse instead of better, in part because of the conflict
between his idea of helping Draco (preventing him from doing the deed)
and Narcissa's idea of "help" (assisting him). Surely he could have
pushed past Draco's easily detectable attempt at Occlumency, but he
doesn't do it, either because he doesn't want to further alienate the
already uncooperative Draco and arouse his suspicions that Snape is
planning to tell Dumbledore what he found out, or because he is afraid
that if he finds out what Draco is doing, he'll be forced by the vow
to aid him. I think it's primarily the second reason.

Snape's row with Dumbledore in the forest (where they won't be
overheard by the portraits) occurs after Draco's second bungled
attempt to kill Dumbledore backfires. Snape has already told Draco not
to act like an amateur with clumsy efforts that can go wrong and get
him expelled--and perhaps those words had an effect because the
poisoned mead is the last attempt of this sort--but Snape knows that
his influence on Draco is gone. He can no longer help Draco by putting
Crabbe and Goyle in detention. It would be too obvious a tactic. He
can't even put Draco himself in detention, which would violate the vow
by openly hindering him. No wonder he explodes and tells Dumbledore
that he takes too much for granted and that he, Snape, doesn't want to
do it any more. He's exasperated because his efforts to stop Draco
have been useless and he sees no point in continuing them. In fact, he
may be afraid that they'll make matters even worse. I think he wants
to act as if nothing is happening, just teach his classes and mark his
essays, counting on Draco's ineptitude and Dumbledore's defenses of
the castle, hoping against hope that nothing will happen, that he'll
never have to kill Dumbledore because Draco will never succeed in
doing what he has to do. 

But in any case, I think that what Snape doesn't want to do any more
has nothing to do with teaching DADA or staying at Hogwarts. It has to
do with continuing his futile efforts to deal with Draco. I think
Dumbledore reminds him that he must at least keep an eye on Draco,
perhaps to see where he's going and who his accomplices are. Quite
possibly he deduces, being Snape, that the little girls reluctantly
following Draco are a poly-juiced Crabbe and Goyle and that he reports
this information. We don't know. But that he (grudgingly) agrees to
follow Draco is shown by his being right at hand when Moaning Myrtle
screams "Murder in the bathroom!" At that point Snape almost certainly
realizes that Dumbledore is right. Had he not been following Draco,
Draco would have died--and so would Snape, for having broken the
provision of his vow that requires him to protect Draco. 

I almost wish, for Snape's sake and Dumbledore's, that he had done so.
He might not have died redeemed, but he would not have the terrible
sin of Dumbledore's death splitting and tainting his soul. And
Dumbledore would have died in any case, since only Snape could save
him. (I say "almost wish" because I still have hope that Snape is
loyal to Dumbledore and will somehow help Harry in Book 7.)

Carol, who sees Snape as trapped rather than evil in HBP