Snape Wars vs Ship Wars was re: Cultural standards for Snape abusiveness/

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 144554

> > Alla:
<SNIP>
But first of all, you are not arguing 
> > that it is an undisputable fact that Snape is DD!M, right?
> 
> Pippin:
> Undisputable? LOL! But if you have to argue that JKR has lost 
control
> of the story arc in order to refute it, then the case for DDM is 
pretty
> strong, IMO. 

Alla:

LOL!Pippin, I have a favor to ask. I KNOW you are brilliant writer, 
I KNOW you know the first step of your argument and all the next 
steps which bring you to the conclusion, but I don't, so if you 
don't mind ( of course you don't have to do it, I am just asking in 
order to be able to understand your arguments better :-)), could you 
please provide more details for your reasoning when you are arguing 
with me, I am getting confused way too often. Again, this is MY 
problem, not yours, but as a friendly favor, more details will be 
very much appreciated.

I had to read these initial sentences three times to try and 
understand what did you mean by that and when I EVER made this 
argument.

So, the best I could come up with was when I said that I was 
speculating that the only reason JKR made Snape kill Dumbledore was 
that he was not bad enough for many fans as horrible person and she 
had to take it steps higher  and make him a murderer - to up the 
stakes so to speak. Is that what you meant? If that was it, I think 
it has NOTHING to do with the argument for OFH! ot ESE!Snape. I was 
just speculating one of the possibilities and I stated pretty 
clearly that I had nothing to support such speculation, IMO. I don't 
think it is out of realm of possibilities, but even we completely 
threw it away, I DO think that Villain!Snape fits very nicely in the 
plot. It just forces you ( not you the reader) to reread all the 
incidents with the different meaning in mind and you know - to me 
ALL of them fit.

Actually, as of today  the only canon which ( to me only) makes me 
hesitate about OFH! or ESE!Snape  is Snape gripping his chair when 
Ginny was taken.

Why? Because that may hint of different character exposition that I 
am thinking of post-HBP Snape. That may postulate that Snape has 
some kind of caring feelings for his non-Slytherin students.

Although I am sure if I think long and hard I will be able to come 
up with some kind of explanation which fits OFH!or ESE!Snape. EVERY 
other Snape related accident, I can easily read as selfish Snape or 
just plain villain Snape.



Pippin:
> Of course there are people who think she did lose control with the
> shipping. Come to think of it, the arguments against R/H and H/G
> have an eerie similarity to the arguments against DDM Snape.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Erm... Sorry, but to me the exact opposite is true, I will just 
refer you to Lupinlore's post who said it very nicely.

IMo and I think I argued it too - the SHIPs show that JKR really, 
really does not mind leaving anvil sized clues and IMO there are 
pretty big clues that show who Snape really IS. :-)

Of course, we differ on what these clues support.



Pippin:
<SNIP>
> It might be interesting to see whether people who think the 
> ships were clumsily handled are also the people who are sure that
> Snape betrayed Dumbledore.


Alla:

Definitely not true for me. I ALWAYS thought that canon cannot be 
any clearer that Ron and Hermione will be together. I was not sure 
whether canon was as clear on Harry and Ginny, I thought that JKR 
may pull the rug and get him the secondary character as love 
interest, but I always was primarily interested in slash ships. In 
any event I did like Harry and Ginny. :-)

JMO of course,

Alla.