Nature of the Vow:

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 145409

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ornadv" <ornawn at 0...> wrote:
>
> >bboyminn:
> 
> ...
> 
> >I don't think the 'force' of the UV turns you into a mindless
> >robot who is forced to act. I do believe you can summon a force
> >of resistance against the compulsion to fulfill the Vow. Yet, 
> >as you summon the will to resist, that starts a cascade that 
> >makes the compulsion to act that much stronger. You may once
> >again summon an even stronger force of will to preventing you
> >from carrying out the compulsion, but once again, the amplifier
> >is turned up, and the compulsion becomes proportionally stronger.
> 
> >So this ever growing, every amplifying, cascade of compulsion
> >and resistance increase until you either drop dead from a brain 
> >aneurysm or a heart attack, or you yeild to the compulsion.
> 
> >...
> 
> Orna:
> .... 
> 
> I liked the way you described this internal process of how the UV 
> might work, it captures the point where with the same mechanism the 
> vow is made unbreakable and the consequences of breaking it take 
> place. ...
> 
> Now, I like to play along with it further – how would it be possible 
> to break an UV, working like this? 
> ...
> 
> I imagine that perhaps the UV can be tampered with by not working 
> with force of will, ..., but by "weakness of will", .... 
> 
> By weakness of will, I mean diffusing intention, willfulness and 
> purposeness.  Not to fight against the vow, but somehow have your 
> mind growing weak in intention. Not to be caught in the "I must"-"I 
> must/will not" trap, but something like "a bit of this, a bit of 
> that, nothing too enthusiastic or detailed, sort of sloppiness".  
> ...
>
> If you panic and just resist the compulsion, it won't work. But, if 
> the person is able to just let his force of will diminish, the 
> compulsion might work weaker. ...
> 
> I agree, that the tower scene is different, because it might stir up 
> strong emotions from a DDM!Snape, thus weakening his ability to work 
> against the vow. 
> 
> ....
>  
> ...edited...
> 
> Just too many thoughts, 
> 
> Orna


bboyminn:

I've already commented that I think, under ideal circumstances, the
Vow can be circumvented or at least delayed. Again, we have no clear
judging-authority to determine the nature of the fulfillment of the
Vow. So, what if, at the top of the tower, instead of resisting the
Vow's compulsion, Snape mentally says, 'I will kill Dumbledore. I will
kill him with a vengance and a fury. Oh but wait... it's almost
midnight and I need to wash my hair. Plus there is all this noise and
distraction. How can anyone possible concentrate? No... No... I'll
have to do it tomorrow, first thing. I'll kill Dumbledore in the
morning while he sleeps.'

Now Snape has the absolute intent to kill Dumbledore, but 'now' just
isn't the right time. The next morning Snape awakens fully intending
to kill Dumbledore, but then realizes Dumbledore is in the Hospital
wing and decides that's not the ideal location. So, he swears to kill
him at breakfast the next day. He wakes in the morning with the full
intend of killing Dumbledore, but realizes that at breakfast, there
will be too many witnesses. So, he decides to do it in the afternoon,
but then realizes he has double potions in the afternoon. So, he puts
off until the next day; his full conscious intend to kill Dumbledore
with a vengance and fury ...unless it's raining.

So, in my scenario, rather than resist the compulsion, Snape lets
himself fall into it, to be totally absorbed in it, but with minor
conditions. He is genuinely yielding to it, but is simply looking for
the best opportunity to fullfill the Vow. 

Further, he could convince himself, that while Draco has failed in the
short term, he will soon come to his senses and carry out the action
he is charged with. In a sense, as long as Snape maintains the genuine
belief that Draco will eventually carry out his task, then in his
mind, Draco hasn't failed, he has only delayed. Again, this is a way
for Snape's attitude to stave off the consequences of the Vow. 

He hasn't denied the Vow, he has only delayed it. As long as he
maintains the proper intent and the proper mindset, he hasn't failed
the Vow.

Now to your idea of minimizing a willfull resistance in order to
minimize the strength of the compulsion. I could see this acting in
the same way as I have described above. As long as you don't resist,
the compulsion is managable. As long as you don't convince yourself
that you have failed, then you should be able to control the
compulsion. You should be able to set the when, where, and how of
fulfilling that compulsion. In a sense, by not believing you failed
and by not resisting the urge, you can control it. 

In someways, you are speculating what could be just a different
perspective on what I am saying. In either case, the Vow is managable
as long as you don't allow yourself to believe you have failed in the
Vow. 

Perhaps, it is your own mind and your own belief that is the Judge,
Jury, and Executioneer of the Vow. As long as you can create an
internal mindset and belief that there is still hope of fulfilling the
Vow, as un-rational as it might be, you could hold off the
consequences for as long as you could maintain the belief.

As long as Snape believes, while Draco isn't killing Dumbledore in the
moment, that he will kill Dumbledore at some point, then the Vow
hasn't been broken.

I believe that Vow is real and that it's consequences are real; I also
believe that it is a 'contract' riddled with loopholes. Narcissa
didn't specify a time frame. She didn't say on the night when the
Death Eaters break into Hogwarts castle, if Draco doesn't kill
Dumbledore, then you, Snape, must do it for him. That doesn't leave
Snape much room to move; not much leeway. But as it is, I think there
is room for interpretation of events relative to the Vow.

Unfortunately, while what I say is true in general, in the moment,
there on the top of the tower, I don't see Snape in a position to
create any artificial mindsets that will act as loopholes. He is under
pressure, and I believe that Dumbledore was fading fast for a variety
of reasons. Snape knew that Dumbledore was a goner, and he also saw a
way to take that and maximize it to his best advantage. So, he
finished Dumbledore off, and got everyone out of there before any more
damage could be done. 

Now Snape is at the top of the scale of Death Eaters. It is doubtful
any Death Eater could come up with a great and grand enough act to
equal the killing of Dumbledore. So, Snape position as Top Dog is
pretty much unchallanged by anyone. Voldemort can't help but trust
him, especially when his 'grand and noble' act was witnessed by
several DE's. That puts Snape in the ideal position to be either DDM!
or ESE! or OFH!

Given the level of 'Snape' discussion, I think we can all agree that
JKR has done a remarkable job of creating doubt about Snape. On one
hand, so many clues that he is Dumbledore's Man, yet, on the other
hand, so much doubt at to his true allegance. You have to admit, it
has been a masterful bit of storytelling. 

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn