Percy Brasco?.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 121543


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant9998"
<eggplant9998 at y...> wrote:
> 
> "ravenclaw001" <technomad at i...> wrote:
> 
> > Just as I am with Marietta, I am withholding
> > judgement on Percy's actions until I see 
> > clear proof that he wasn't acting as a long-term,
> > deep-cover mole for Dumbledore at the Ministry. 


> Eggplant said:
> 
> I wonder, are you withholding judgment of Umbridge's actions too? I 
> doubt it, but you could make an equally strong (weak may be a better 
> word) case that she was also a deep-cover mole for Dumbledore. I 
> have never heard anyone actually argue this and I think I know why, 
> her last name is not Weasley.
> 


bboyminn:

You can't possibly be comparing what Marietta, Percy, or Hermione did
in OotP to what Umbridge did.

Marietta will recover from her 'spots', and likely she will see that
she was misguided. True, technically her action may have been right in
the general sense, but she was misguided when the hidden details
finally become known. She has a right to be angry, and the 'gang' have
a right to be angry at her, but in the end it all worked out; no harm,
no foul. In the long run, I'm confident that forgive and forget will
rule the day.

Percy hasn't caused any harm. Lots of hard feelings, but no real harm.
He followed his beliefs, not necessarily a bad thing, but his beliefs
were clouded and distorted by an asortment of strong emotions.
Furthermore, not having caused real harm, Percy can still be redeemed.
In seeing the error of his ways and expressing that insight, he opens
the door to forgiveness. Percy did a bad thing, but that doesn't make
him a bad person. It makes him an very annoying but good person who
made a mistake, a mistake I'm sure he now regrets. Let those among you
who have never done a bad thing cast the first electron.

Hermione's (although you didn't specifically mention her, her actions
have been mentioned in similar discussions) actions were most likely
not intended to do harm. I don't think Hermione intended for the
Centaurs to kill Umbridge. 

Her quickly conceived plan was meant to buy them time, to save Harry
from the Pain Curse, and to hopefully allow them time  to escape from
Umbridge, but I hardly think she intended more than that. 

Also, notice that the /alleged/ murderous Centaurs kept Umbridge
overnight, and did her no permanent physical harm (that we know of).
True, we can debate the degree of harm, but they absolutely did NOT
kill Umbridge; that's a fact, though they had ample opportunity.

Umbridge on the otherhand acted with total disregard for any harm, and
physical and psychologial pain she may cause, whether that harm be
small as in subverting the education process, or large as in illegally
and without mercy or true provocation attempting to utterly destroy
Harry (equal to cold-blooded murder in my book) because he was saying
things that were /inconvenient/ to the Ministry.

Umbridge was an intentionally vicious, heartless, spitefull, mean,
cruel, ruthless, sadistic person who was a real danger to anyone who
got in her way. That is certain, far and away, above and beyond the
actions of Marietta, Percy, or Hermione.


Eggplant concludes:

> ..., sometimes a very bad family can produce a very good person 
> such as Sirius, and sometimes the opposite is true such as Percy. Is 
> it possible Percy is a mole for Dumbledore? Sure. It's also possible 
> pigs may fly, ...
> 
> Eggplant


bboyminn:

I've already said that I don't think Percy is a bad person. I think he
simply made a mistake. Also, I'm not a big fan of the 'Percy is
Dumbledore's Mole' theory. It does help redeem Percy and explain his
action, but it's a little too easy from a writer's standpoint. 

I think it more likely that Percy completely cut himself off from what
he saw as his misguided family to prove to them that he could get and
keep his job on his owm merits. To prove he was worthy of his
promotion, and that it hadn't been given to him so that Fudge could
spy on Dumbledore. 

While Arthur's reaction is understandable, those Weasleys are all
stubborn as a pack of mules, I still say he could have handled it
better. I will also say again that Percy's actions were clouded by a
big dose of Weasley mule-headedness as well as a complex complement of
 negative emotions. None of us thinks too clearly when we are angry,
hurt, and dissappointed. 

Percy isn't a bad person, he's an annoying but good person who did a
bad thing, and now regrets having done so. That leaves room for
redemtion and forgiveness. 

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)