SHIP Re: Sirius and Remus

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 131360

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, LilyBella <lilybella719 at y...> 
wrote:
> I'm not replying to anyone specifically and I don't
> usually get into these kinds of debates, but this was
> one I couldn't resist, simply because I do not now,
> nor have I ever understood the Sirius/Remus ship for
> numerous reasons. I won't go into them all now; I'd
> end up writing an essay, but well
 


Marianne:

Fair enough. Some people see it; some people don't and it remains to 
be seen whether any definitive canon will support the pairing beyond 
a shadow of a doubt, or sink it along with the other shattered 
timbers of wrecked ships.


<snip> speculation about Sirius' best-friend relationship with James 
being fulfilling enough for Sirius/ and the Sirius "big rebel" JKR 
quote>
LilyBella:
> I imagine if Sirius were in a serious relationship
> with anyone they would have been invited to the
> christening with him. Going by this quote, however,
> not even Lupin was invited. If he and Sirius were
> lovers at this point, I think it'd be safe to assume
> he'd be there to witness something like that, but she
> said it, Sirius was the only one and what reason would
> there be to say Lupin wasn't there? 

Marianne:
Unless Lupin was away on Order business and couldn't be there? Or 
perhaps the Order was so concerned about their members being picked 
off by DEs that caution determined only the barest number of people 
could attend the ceremony. 

At what point did homosexual relationships become legal in the UK?  
Was Sirius being a "big rebel" not because he was playing the field, 
but because his relationship with another man was technically 
against the law?  

LilyBella: 
> After Azkaban, not only do I doubt one of Sirius' main
> priorities was to find himself a shag partner, but GoF
> canon shows us after Harry discovered the truth,
> Sirius spent another year hiding out with Buckbeak, no
> mention of Lupin anywhere until Dumbledore asks Sirius
> to hide out his place at the end of the book. The
> argument stands if they were lovers, why wouldn't
> Sirius go to Lupin instead of living off rats to be
> near Harry? 

Marianne:
I too doubt that looking for sex was a high priority for a man who 
had just spent 12 years in a forced depressive state.  Plus, as 
great distrust had obviously seeped into whatever relationship the 
two men had prior to the Potters' deaths, it seems unlikely that 
they could simply pick up where they left off, even if we're talking 
about friendship only.

As for why Sirius wouldn't stay with Remus, I think he wouldn't want 
to run the risk of Remus getting caught hiding a fugitive.  If 
Sirius is caught by the Ministry near Hogwarts, he doesn't drag 
anyone else down with him.  And, I also think Sirius believed his 
responsibility was towards Harry.

LilyBella:
> By the time we see Sirius again in OotP, he's not the
> same guy he was in GoF. He's constantly depressed,
> often immature, and it seemed to me that Lupin was at
> Grimmauld Place more out of the need to watch Sirius
> in the way a mother watches a child, rather than two
> friends living together because well
just because. I
> think at this point, Lupin couldn't have had a
> relationship with Sirius
 he was too damaged; it
> wouldn't have been healthy, not for either of them.
> Lupin wouldn't have allowed it.

Marianne:
And you may be completely correct in this reading. We can speculate 
back and forth and not come to agreement.  However, I don't  
understand your point regarding Lupin not being able to have a 
relationship with Sirius because Sirius was too damaged.  Are you 
saying that Remus would only offer friendship at this point because 
Sirius was so far beyond help that anything else would have been a 
mistake?  I agree that they probably would not have had the 
healthiest of relationships, but that doesn't always stop people.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say you're wrong and I'm right.  I think 
both sides in this debate can easily speculate from canon to show 
different interpretations of whatever relationship existed between 
Remus and Sirius. If you subscribe to the ESE!Lupin as described so 
eloquently by Pippin, Remus may very well have been the one to send 
Sirius through the veil.  I'm sure HBP will give us additional 
fodder, at least into the workings of Mr. Lupin.

Marianne