Moral messages (and Hagrid)

[cat_kind]

No: HPFGUIDX 128767

> Betsy:
> So we have a man verbally attack the wizard Hagrid feels a strong
> allegiance to, and in retaliation Hagrid hits the man's son with a
> painful and irreversable spell.
> 
> 
> Valky:
> In any case I don't see what all the fuss is about turning Dudders
> into a pig, Its not that vicious, and it's not really an attack on him
> being 'Fat' at all. What had ever happened to poor little Dudders
> before this night that could even vaguely prove that he wouldn't
> benefit from a discipline in what he's become? To be quite frank, why
> shouldn't we cheer Hagrid on, where else is Dudley going to get a
> healthy lesson in humility? he's done him a favour IMO. But I am
> pretty sure neither of you will agree with that at all, so I'm not
> arguing it just stating that this is in part my veiw of the scene. 
> 
> In this way the attack is upon Vernon, where it counts, believe it or
> not, The hip pocket.

catkind: Okay, even supposing Hagrid does know what Dudley is, this
argument doesn't really work, because Dudley doesn't know he knows. If
Hagrid said "let this teach yer a lesson, pickin' on poor 'Arry like
tha'!" then Dudley might indeed get said lesson. As it is he's
terrified for the whole scene, he's hiding behind his parents, he's
not showing any kind of lack of humility, or gluttony (well, he
twitched at the sight of some sausages, but then even Harry is
canonically starving by this point, and Harry isn't used to eating as
much as Dudley), and for him the punishment comes totally out of the blue.

Dudley certainly needs to be taught a lesson, but I think the only
lesson he's learned here is that wizards are powerful and frightening.  
It has to come over to Dudley as an attack on his weight, doesn't it?
Hagrid's calls him "yer great lump", tells Vernon "Yer great puddin'
of a son don' need fattenin' anymore, Dursley, don' worry," and then
gives him a pig's tail.

I don't think Dudley feels the attack is on his father's wallet. Given
their over-fondness for Dudley, I don't think even Vernon does.
Admittedly it probably doesn't take much to have Dudley "howling in
pain", but then there's the humiliation factor, plus the sheer horror
of the whole idea of being physically changed like that. 

> Valky:
> I really like the point that Tonks makes about the Gluttony of Dudley,
> he is over-indulged to a level that you could only call disgusting. I
> am a strong believer that this does more harm than good, and I think
> Tonks, Geoff and Laura sum up nicely what I mean by saying that.

catkind: Thanks to Tonks, Geoff and Laura for the definitions of
gluttony. 

So we have two ideas - greed, and excess.  How do we define excess?
Eating so much that it's bad for your health? That line would be
crossed long before Dudley's state.  In my moral code that's stupid,
but bears its own punishment. I guess religious people are more likely
to rate it morally wrong, as your body is a gift from the gods etc. 
Greed - okay, so greediness is about wanting things for yourself and
taking them away from others. This breaks all sorts of other rules
about manners and fair play and bullying too.  I'm still not entirely
sure where the sin lies with gluttony. If I buy and eat three
ice-creams in a row, am I breaking this moral code or not? 

(I wanted to include bullying in my list of Potterverse "Thou Shalt
Not"s, and was deterred by too many apparently non-condemned
incidents, this one included.)

Good luck with the exams, Valky!

catkind