the WW's creativity

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142856

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "darqali" <darqali at y...> wrote:
>
> darqali:
> > > why assume *any* given 
> > > technology or innovation {like, the musical forms discussed} 
are 
> > > purely Muggle in origin?
> 
> colebiancardi:
> > except there is no such thing as Wizards :)  Sorry, there are 
tons 
> of 
> > ancient ruins in Britian and Europe from the old Roman Empire - 
if 
> > Wizards are so advanced with plumbing, why are they so woefully 
out 
> > of touch with the concept of iPods or its forefather, the 
Walkman?  
> > Or that they still use candles and torches instead of electricity?
> 
> darqali:
> > 
> Now, to answer your questions:  We have been told in canon that no 
> electric device will *work* in magical  environments.  Wizards use 
> what works for them.  Fires and candles work and modern electric 
> lights and devices won't.

colebiancardi:Uhmm, you misunderstood me - I stated the concepts of 
those inventions, not the actual usage.  Sure they use what works for 
them, but after all this time, there hasn't been an invention to 
produce lighting & heating on a large scale.  They still use candles 
and fireplaces.   Nor was I implying that Wizards are *backwards* in 
any way.  
> 
<big snip>
> > And if you propose that Wizards were simply using Roman 
technology, 
> you have yet to explain the flush toilets {Romans didn't have}; the 
> indoor toilets {Romans didn't have} and the entire concept of 
> separate facilities for males and females {totally foreign to Roman 
> sensibilities; their toilets weren't even *enclosed* and males and 
> females used the same facilities, at the same time!}

colebiancarid: Romans did have indoor plumbing and bathrooms (water 
closet is a toilet) and they were flushing, although it worked with a 
constant flow of water through them, instead of flushing when you are 
done.  However, who is to say that Hogwarts didn't start out like 
that and then progressed as the ages passed?  And doesn't Myrtle live 
in the U-bend in the bathroom(or liked to go there)?  The U-bend 
wasn't invented until 1782.  Now, one could state that the WW was so 
advanced they invented plumbing and U-bends and flushing systems all 
at once, but wouldn't it make more sense they progressed as the ages 
went by?  And upgraded their old buildings?
  
more on indoor bathrooms & flushing toilets(Romans):
"Luxurious indoor bathrooms have been found in the homes of upper-
crust Romans predating the Empire's famed public baths. In the ruins 
of Pompeii, destroyed by Mount Vesuvius in 79 A.D., have been found 
private homes with entire submerged rooms that served as baths, or 
perhaps more accurately described as indoor pools. Marble steps led 
down from the concrete floor of the main house. Walls were marble-
lined, and in a hollow space under the floor, a fire burned. The heat 
passed up through hollow terra cotta tiles to keep both air and water 
a comfortable temperature. 

Also discovered in the Pompeii ruins were ancient water spigots and 
water closets flushed by water from a cistern. Included are metal 
hinges that archaeologists believe attached to wooden toilet seats 
that have since deteriorated. Some homes in Pompeii had as many as 30 
water taps."

b) In the beginning, men & women DID have separate baths -
"At first, Roman men and women had their separate public baths. As 
time passed mixed nude bathing became the norm, albeit with "eyes 
forward" cultural mores. By the time of Rome's collapse in the 5th 
century A.D., the baths had devolved into little more than brothels. 
This debauchery mirrored the general descent into decadence that 
historians associate with the Empire's decline. "

so, it seems that that Romans knew about the concept of separate 
baths, but in later times, preferred to have mixed bathing(a cultural 
thing - some cultures today have mixed bathing as well).

both quotes are from this website: 
http://www.pmengineer.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/coverstory/BNPCoverSt
oryItem/0,2730,4435,00.html

and let's face it, the word plumbing is plumbum - which is Latin for 
lead, which the Roman pipes were made of.  Obviously, the Wizard 
World owes much to the Roman's - what about all that Latin for the 
spells?  And since Hogwarts doesn't have power, they either are using 
hydrostatic pressure with their pipelines to put water in the multi-
level castle or just plain magic... 
> 
> You might also explain why Wizards built Hogwarts using Roman 
> plumbing, but neglected to install a perfectly workable, non-
electric 
> hypocaust central heating system while they were at it ....  would 
have 
> been a lot more comfy in January IMO....

colebiancardi:For a building the size of Hogwarts, that would be a 
lot of house elves to manage a hypocaust central heating system - way 
too big, staircases always moving, very high ceilings, drafty, etc. 

colebiancardi
(The Romans and Greeks are credited to be the inventors of modern 
plumbing and the Romans for their central heating system - I am glad 
to see that today's population is looking at how the Romans did 
heated floors - a great concept and high time it came back in style!!)