Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 141109

> >>Valky:
> <snip>
> So my assessment of James generally a nice guy, who deliberately   
> and openly sets himself against things that he thinks are wrong    
> and evil.

Betsy Hp:
So, do you think *all* of those students James and Sirius hexed 
throughout their time at Hogwarts were somehow wrong or evil?  
Because I got the impression that James was more showing off than 
taking some sort of "stand against injustice" or something.

> >>Valky:
> His groups of best friends - A Werewolf, a Blood Traitor, and a
> virtual Squib.

Betsy Hp:
Hmmm.... Again, I think you're giving James a bit too much credit 
here.  James didn't rush out to befriend a werewolf.  Lupin was his 
friend and then James *discovered* he was a werewolf.  There's a 
difference there.  Yes, it was good of James (and telling, I think) 
that he *maintained* his friendship with Lupin, but it doesn't paint 
a picture of James being out for the little guy, IMO.

And with Sirius, sure he chose to go against family tradition and 
become a Gryffindor, but that didn't automatically make him a blood 
traitor.  Sirius remained a Black until he was sixteen, IIRC.  So 
again, James wasn't choosing to befriend an oppressed outsider.

As to Peter, I'm going to agree with colebiancardi here.  Nothing in 
canon points to Peter being so magically challenged as to be 
considered a "virtual squib".  *Harry* pictures Peter as Neville, 
but that's an assumption on his part.  (I think Collin Creevey would 
have made a better mirror, though not a perfect one.  He has the 
worshipfulness down anyway.)  For me, the most disturbing part of 
the pensieve memory was how *comfortable* James was with Peter's 
fawning.  It seemed that Peter worked to be James's friend, not the 
other way around.  So again, I don't see a pattern of choosing 
the "outsiders".

> >>Valky:
> <snip>
> Before the prank James turned his defiance of all things he hated, 
> all things that were wrong in his mind, on an easy target. Snape. 
> Then confronted with the choice to let Snape face Lupin alone and
> unprepared, he saw another wrong, but this time his defiance of it
> needed to be turned upon his best friend Sirius. A Hard choice, and
> James, the same essential person, made the choice of what was right
> over what was easy and defied his best friend to save Snape.

Betsy Hp:
I do agree that the Prank was James's moment of defining choice.  
His dislike of Snape did not translate into James allowing his 
friend to become a murderer.  But I *also* think that at this point 
James stepped onto a different path than the one he'd been heading 
down.  That's what made the choice "hard", IMO.  Because James 
*does* go against his friend (in the short term anyway).  The 
easiest thing to do would have been to do nothing.  It's to James's 
credit that he took action.

> >>Valky:
> I also think that James and Sirius thought they had the measure of 
> what was good for Snape and the school in general when they were   
> bullying Snape, but they were wrong...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I have a hard time reconciling this with the memory. Snape wasn't 
doing anything wrong.  He wasn't picking on a poor big-eyed first 
year.  He wasn't torturing puppies.  He was studying for his OWL.  
And Sirius was bored.  James decided that as a good friend he'd 
entertain Sirius by picking on the outsider, the weird kid with bad 
social skills and a funky homelife.  It's very hard for me to 
see "out for social justice"!James in this memory.  Even *James* 
can't point him out.  "Because he exists" doesn't quite cut it as a 
rallying cry for me.

> >>Valky:
> <snip of Snape stuff>
> ...Lily's chewing out of James in the Pensieve should be (and     
> probably was) a lesson to James.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Again, I don't see James "learning a lesson" here.  Actually, once 
Lily stormed off (to get a professor, maybe?) James turns his attack 
*up* a notch.  He threatens to strip Snape in front of a mixed 
group.  Whether it happens or not, James seemed pretty serious in 
his intent.  No, I think James's "lesson" comes when he realizes his 
best friend is about to commit murder.  It's certainly a good thing 
that James was unwilling to take his vendetta with Snape that far, 
but I do think it's important to recognize how seriously James had 
it in for Snape beforehand.

> >>Valky:
> <snip>
> Snapes instincts are, I think, that he needs order and rationality,
> and he needs to feel he has a secure handle on his greater
> environment, he is very in need of control. He chooses what is    
> easy, to express those instincts, when he spies on the Marauders, 
> trying to take control of what happens in their lives.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I agree with you somewhat here.  I'm not sure I'd label spying on 
the Marauders as "easy", though.  I figure Snape generally enjoyed 
Hogwarts except for the Marauders and, in an attempt to take control 
of the situation, decided to find the Marauders in some sort of 
wrong-doing and get them expelled, thereby eliminating the problem.  

Going up against a gang that had the Map and an invisibility cloak 
in its arsenal must have been frustrating, however.  That might be 
part of the reason Snape took the "easy" route and decided to 
maintain contact with his "Slytherin gang" and join the Death 
Eaters.  (Though I do think it's a mistake to lean too heavily on 
the "James abused Snape into joining the Death Eaters" theory.  I'm 
sure there were other factors, and I'm leery of overselling James's 
role in Snape's decision.)

Betsy Hp