Dumbledore's pleading/What Horcruxes Dumbledore and Harry destroyed?

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 141647

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:

<snip>

> I am talking about facts, and facts are stubborn things, even in 
> fiction.

The shippers regarded their approach to the books as reading facts. I 
take it you're more inclined to seem them as, well...delusional? :)

> There is no obvious reading in which an AK can account for the 
> blood around Dumbledore's mouth, and no obvious reading in which 
> the appearance of the moon *before* Lupin transforms can be 
> compatible with a transformation caused by the chance appearance of 
> the moon.
> 
> If those things are not Flints, or JKR choosing to contradict 
> herself for artistic effect, then they require some explanation in 
> the text.

This is where I'd disagree.  Not every fact (in the sense 
of 'observation of data') requires explanation, because not every 
event in the series gets an explanation.  I remember post-OotP that 
it was somehow massively significant that Luna was not on the train, 
because JKR very, very purposefully didn't mention her.  Well, there 
hasn't been any payoff yet.  It would be the rarer work of fiction 
(unless we go back in time, natch) that feels the need or the use of 
space to elucidate every detail and fit it neatly into the plot.  
Again, it's the question of whether JKR thinks it's *important* or 
whether it's just there because dude, it's there.

> An explanation consonant with guilty Snape or innocent Lupin can 
> surely be contrived, but it will take just as much space as an 
> explanation that isn't, and it won't move the plot forward at all, 
> so why make it necessary in the first place?

Guilty!Snape doesn't move the plot forward?  We all want to know why 
he did it, and what he's been doing since.  Perhaps he even has a 
special item or two with him.  Harry resolves the part of the plot 
line that deals with Snape, and we go on.

Sure, ESE!Lupin moves the plot in different directions, and is quite 
BANG-y.  But it's not like the alternative dread to you is 
dramatically dead.

> or why he wouldn't abandon Dumbledore once Voldemort was gone and 
> Crouch was making deals.

I suppose that Snape's "it was comfortable and it kept me out of 
trouble" explanation is something you're only willing to accept for a 
limited amount of time.  But OFH!Snape knows the vagaries of the 
world, and isn't going to ruin a good thing: sure, Dumbledore puts 
some restrictions on him, but on the other hand, given DD's 
temperament, he's going to allow Snape to be Snape with considerable 
latitude.  Should anyone, someone resurface, Snapeykins is still in a 
nice place to be.

See, that didn't take much ink.

-Nora has devilish thoughts about who sent the DE crew after the 
Longbottoms: someone who knew those people, and knew about the 
prophecy, and wanted either or both of them gone...