Draco's culpability (Was: My doubts about Snape being Evil)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 139460

I noticed that in my precious post I wrote "Snipper's end" instead 
of Spinner's. Talk about Freudian slips


Betsy HP wrote:

> I will say that I think the definition of a "Death Eater" has 
> evolved over the series.

a_svirn:

This would be the right place to elaborate and specify just *how* 
this definition evolved.


> Betsy Hp:
> Yes, but don't we learn later that those who consider themselves 
> Death Eater's actually bare a mark on their forearms?  In 
> otherwords, I'm sure there were Death Eater sympathizers (like 
those 
> folks who joined in on the muggle torture at the World Cup), but 
it 
> takes something special to be chosen by Voldemort to bare his mark.

a_svirn:

This is the second time you quote this episode in our discussion and 
since you never answered my counterargument I'll cite it again. The 
episode you obviously have in mind reads as follows: 

"A crowd of wizards, tightly packed and moving together with wands 
pointing straight upward, was marching slowly across the field. 
Harry squinted at them. . . . They didn't seem to have faces. . . . 
Then he realized that their heads were hooded and their faces 
masked.  <snip>
More wizards were joining the marching group, laughing and pointing 
up at the floating bodies.  Tents crumpled and fell as the marching 
crowd swelled.  Once or twice Harry saw one of the marchers blast a 
tent out of his way with his wand.  Several caught fire.  The 
screaming grew louder."

You interpret these "more wizards" as *unmasked* persons from the 
crowd who decided to join the fun. I find it unlikely. It would be 
foolhardy if not downright suicidal to join the DE marsh in the full 
view of the ministry officials. Especially since the marchers 
offensive actions were aimed not only at the muggle Robertson 
family, but also at the fellow-wizards (tents that caught fire). 
It's more likely that more *masked* marchers joined the group. 

> Betsy Hp:
> Draco was certainly excited to be chosen, yes.  And I'm quite sure 
> that if Voldemort had offered, Draco would have gladly been 
marked.  
> In the beginning.  However, did Voldemort offer?  That's my 
question.

a_svirn:
In other words you agree that as Draco was concerned his choice was 
made at the beginning of HBP. But since we cannot be sure that 
Voldemorte deemed him worthy, we cannot be sure that he was a DE. 
But this kind of argument renders all your previous eloquent defense 
of Draco unnecessary. What does it matter if he was nothing but 
Voldemorte's pawn and his family was threatened? It's the mark that 
makes a Death Eater. 

> Betsy Hp:
> Didn't Barty Crouch go on and on about his loyalty?  Didn't Snape 
> have to prove himself loyal?  <snip>

a_svirn:
Well, it was Barty who harped about his loyalty, not Voldemort. And 
both he and Bella are somewhat deranged. As for Snape, no, he 
wasn't. He tried to prove himself *useful* while *openly* stating 
that his loyalty wavered after Vlodemorte's downfall. (Compare to 
Lucius, who unsuccessfully tried to appear loyal in the graveyard 
episode). 


> 
> Betsy Hp:
> But was the reluctanct boy considered good enough to join the 
inner 
> circle and bare the mark of a Death Eater?  That's my question.

a_svirn:
Well, you yourself acknowledged that Draco was far from reluctant 
from the beginning. And what does it mean "inner circle"? I seem to 
remember only one circle in the Graveyard. 

> Betsy Hp:
<snip> Draco did not 
> approach Voldemort.  Draco did not *ask* to be used.  I *do* 
believe 
> Draco was thrilled beyond measure at being approached and was, at 
> first, eager to prove himself worthy of *becoming* a Death Eater. 

a_svirn:

 I don't understand this logic. Since Draco did not decline the 
honor, but was on the contrary "trilled" to become Voldemorte's 
servant, it follows that he *asked* to be used. That's what being 
servants is about.    


Betsy HP:
> But, most importantly, Draco was not given an opportunity to 
> choose.  That was given to him by Dumbledore on the Tower.  

a_svirn:

Yes, because Dumbledore is a great believer in *second* chances. 
That's what he was doing on the Tower – giving Draco his *second* 
chance.