Draco's culpability (Was: My doubts about Snape being Evil)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 139467

> >>a_svirn:
> This is the second time you quote this episode in our discussion  
> and since you never answered my counterargument I'll cite it      
> again. The episode you obviously have in mind reads as follows:
> <snip of example> 
> You interpret these "more wizards" as *unmasked* persons from the 
> crowd who decided to join the fun. I find it unlikely. It would be 
> foolhardy if not downright suicidal to join the DE marsh in the   
> full view of the ministry officials. Especially since the marchers 
> offensive actions were aimed not only at the muggle Robertson 
> family, but also at the fellow-wizards (tents that caught fire). 
> It's more likely that more *masked* marchers joined the group.

Betsy Hp:
And yet, Harry was able to watch people laugh.  Since it was at a 
distance and there were people screaming, etc., I doubt he *heard* 
them laughing.  So they must have been un-masked in order to take 
part in the fun.  Yes, it was foolhardy, but that's pack behavior 
for you.  It happens in RL all the time.  Folks go mad in front of 
police and cameras and what all because they've let go of reason and 
joined with the crowd. 

Am I missing your point?  I swear I'm not doing it on purpose.  I do 
think there are levels to Voldemort sympathizers.  I think they run 
from those who agree with the over-all Death Eater philosophy but 
dislike the violence, to those who'll help anyone strewing a bit of 
chaos around, all the way up to those who swear allegiance to 
Voldemort and receive his mark.

> > Betsy Hp:
> > Draco was certainly excited to be chosen, yes.  And I'm quite    
> > sure that if Voldemort had offered, Draco would have gladly been 
> > marked. In the beginning.  However, did Voldemort offer?  That's 
> > my question.

> >>a_svirn:
> In other words you agree that as Draco was concerned his choice    
> was made at the beginning of HBP.

Betsy Hp:
No.  Draco wasn't given the choice.  If Voldemort had given him one 
I think he would have chosen to join, but Draco wasn't given a 
chance to choose.  Not by Voldemort.

> >>a_svirn:
> But since we cannot be sure that Voldemorte deemed him worthy, we 
> cannot be sure that he was a DE. 

Betsy Hp:
We *know* Voldemort doesn't see Draco as worthy.  We're told this in 
Spinner's End.  Draco is being used to punish his father, maybe 
shake Dumbledore up a litte.  But he has not been chosen as 
a "worthy servant".  He's been chosen as a tool.  And he has no say 
in the matter.

> >>a_svirn:
> But this kind of argument renders all your previous eloquent      
> defense of Draco unnecessary. What does it matter if he was       
> nothing but Voldemorte's pawn and his family was threatened? It's 
> the mark that makes a Death Eater.

Betsy Hp:
Even if Draco *does* have the mark he still didn't *choose*.  He is 
not a volunteer.  I doubt he's got the mark, because Voldemort 
expected him to die and I suspect the mark is something to be 
honored.  That was my argument.  But it certainly doesn't make Draco 
lack of choice moot, IMO.

> > Betsy Hp:
> > But was the reluctanct boy considered good enough to join the 
> > inner circle and bare the mark of a Death Eater?  That's my     
> > question.

> >>a_svirn:
> Well, you yourself acknowledged that Draco was far from reluctant 
> from the beginning. And what does it mean "inner circle"? I seem   
> to remember only one circle in the Graveyard. 

Betsy Hp:
That *was* the inner circle.  Voldemort's chosen elite. It's not a 
literal circle.  Usually.  And Draco obviously becomes reluctant.  
Hence the "we'll kill you and your family too" stuff.

> >>a_svirn:
> I don't understand this logic. Since Draco did not decline the 
> honor, but was on the contrary "trilled" to become Voldemorte's 
> servant, it follows that he *asked* to be used. That's what being 
> servants is about.

Betsy Hp:
No, Draco was not given a choice.  Draco was excited (or gave the 
appearance of being, I don't want to assume too much) to be chosen, 
but the very nature of being chosen precludes Draco making the 
choice.  It was Voldemort's choice, not Draco's.  That's what being 
a pawn is all about.
   
> >>Betsy HP:
> > But, most importantly, Draco was not given an opportunity to 
> > choose.  That was given to him by Dumbledore on the Tower.  

> a_svirn: 
> Yes, because Dumbledore is a great believer in *second* chances. 
> That's what he was doing on the Tower – giving Draco his *second* 
> chance.

Betsy Hp:
Draco was never given a chance to choose.  Never.  HBP makes it 
absolutely clear that Voldemort wanted to punish Lucius and so he 
chose to send Lucius's son to his death.  Either at Dumbledore's 
hands (bonus for Voldemort) or at Voldemort's hands Draco was chosen 
to die.  That was the entire point of Voldemort's task when Narcissa 
showed up at Snape's door.  Yes, Draco bought the story given him by 
his Aunt (and possibly Voldemort -- I wonder if he did all this in 
person?).  But he was without options at this point.  If Draco had 
protested from the beginning, his mother would have been held 
hostage from the beginning.  Any sense of choice on Draco's part 
would have been pure illusion.

Draco finds this out sometime around Christmas.  That's when the 
gloves came off and Draco realized what he'd been pulled into.  It's 
not until the Tower that any sort of choice is offered.  Draco tells 
Dumbledore, "I haven't got any options!" (591)  He's without 
choice.  But Dumbledore, gives the freedom to choose back to Draco.  
Once Draco *is* free to choose, he chooses to not kill.  It's not a 
second choice.  It's not even a second chance.  It's Draco's first 
chance and it's his first time to choose, and he chooses not to kill.

Betsy Hp