either must die at the hand of the other, Contradiction or Clue?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 139725

Sarquel:
>So obviously it is important that Voldemort made himself some sort
>of a body, and that the importance was not just so that he could
>wield a wand in OotP, but it has an importance we are yet to
>discover as JKR uses the future tense.

Valky:
>I don't know that I can honestly define a line between the body and
>the soul, I am beginning to think that there isn't one, bodiless
>souls and souless bodies will always long for the other piece of
>themself.
*(snip)* -and again:
>The Diary Horcrux drains Ginny's life away to create its soul piece 
>a new body. First it took over her body, the HSP was poured into her 
>and once it had control of her body it moved on from there, draining 
>her ?life essence? to inhabit a body of magical creation. How did he 
>do this? It seems like the soul fragment converted the essence of 
>Ginny's life into a body for itself, it didn't take her material 
>body, literally, so I think that the body of Young Tom must have 
>been created by the soul piece, in some way.

Ceridwen:
Hm.  If JKR is using Christian imagery, then there may be some 
significance in the body being the Temple or dwelling place of the 
Holy Spirit.  And like the 'black mass', Voldemort is turning 
everything on its head.  I'm really loathe to get into the whole 
opposites thing in relation to Christian theology here.  But, if it's 
true that this can at some level become allegorical, then it probably 
should be mentioned.

Reading the exchange between the two of you, I notice that the one 
thing missing, though briefly touched upon, is the spirit.  Ghosts 
are spirits of the departed; the ?life essence? from Ginny could be 
the same.  If we regard human existence as tripartite, echoing the 
Trinity, then the spirit must be included.  Is it the glue between 
the other two?  Or are all equally dependent upon the other?

When Voldemort is in his twilit existence, is this his spirit, which 
is anchored to earth by his use of horcruxes?  I guess I'm suggesting 
that at GH, Voldemort's body and the portion of soul he had left to 
him, were both destroyed, but since his spirit couldn't move on 
because of the horcruxes, he remained 'alive' enough to struggle back 
and regenerate himself with some sort of spirit/soul magic.

If that's the case, then he has already reclaimed one piece of soul 
from his original stash of horcruxes in order to do this, his spirit 
and a part of his soul generating the body that the soul longs for.

So, how big a piece did he reclaim?  Has he replaced that particular 
destroyed horcrux with another, splitting this portion of soul again?

Going on, then, I'm going to have to agree to the pieces of soul 
returning to the original, or in this case, substitute body.  I was 
completely against that, agreeing more that the pieces of soul 
returned to the 'ether' or wherever it is that bits of energy go when 
released.  But, that would leave it wide open, since these pieces of 
soul have already been released from the host body, for each piece to 
reinhabit a body at some point, most likely through possession at 
first, then finally, as in CoS, robbing another body of its spirit.  
Which would then give us seven Voldemorts running around in 
reconstituted bodies formed from robbed!spirit and Voldy!soul.  So, 
to prevent that, the soul pieces would have to (stealthily?) return 
to the original piece of soul, or join together somewhere, somehow, 
and the newly-created body, the spirit being the magnet, is the 
perfect place.

At least, if we're getting into the subject this deep, this is my 
take on it, and it's just... creepy.

So, I'll move on to something less EWW, Voldemort's appearance.  
Jumping down a level, his snake-like appearance, his abilitiy to 
speak Parseltongue, and the whole imagery from The House of Gaunt 
with the snake hanging from the door and Morfin threatening another 
snake with a similar fate, could Voldemort's Patronus, and his shape 
if he ever became an Anamagus, be a snake?  If Sirius went through 
the entire body reconstitution thing, would his human appearance 
become more dog-like?  Or, McGonagall more cat-like?

Back to work ;) - Nearly Headless Nick suggested that ghosts are what 
is left when a person is afraid of dying, or unwilling to move on.  
Ghosts are spirits.  And they retain the shape or appearance of the 
body in life.  Which doesn't quite jibe with the whole Diary!Tom 
image as he's draining Ginny's spirit (if that's what it is he's 
draining).  Or, would the two get together to create something akin 
to the original anyway, just... slightly different?  Sort-of like the 
possible appearance of a child created by the two individuals?

So, that's where I'm getting lost.  Body, soul and spirit must be 
together, at least according to Judeo-Christian beliefs as handed 
down to present.  Two together long for the third.  The spirit 
*apparently* holds the form of the completed whole (unless ghosts are 
souls and not spirits, I think most people see ghosts as spirits and 
there has to be a cultural reason for that).  So, what about Ginny's 
spirit being used in the failed reconstitution?  Because in all of 
that, Harry doesn't notice the New!Tom looking like Ginny.

Yup, trying to fly with eagles, ending up slogging through mud.  
Seriously, there has to be a way to resolve the CoS clues into the 
rest.  Time to headdesk.

Ceridwen.