Requiescat in Pace, My Dark Phoenix

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 151328

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at ...>
wrote:
 
> Unfortunately, I had an epiphany at the end of January.  I shared it
> with family and friends, hoping to be talked out of it.
<snip>

I'm sorry, I'm not going to be much help talking you out of it.  Maybe
more the opposite.

Because this is *working* for me.

<major snipping throughout>

Talisman: 
> Then there is the matter of impersonation.  Again, it's everywhere
> in the series, and I well expect it to play a continued role in the
> plot.
<snip>
> 
> This segues nicely into the imposter fears that are rampant in HBP,
> and the Ministry's protocols (however inept) for distinguishing
> family members from DEs who just happen to look like them.

I came across this little tidbit just the other day: it's in HBP ch. 4
(61-62 US), after Harry asks DD about the Ministry leaflet --

"Yes, I received one myself," said Dumbledore, still smiling.  "Did
you find it useful?"

"Not really."

"No, I thought not.  You have not asked me, for instance, what is my
favorite flavor of jam, to check that I am indeed Professor Dumbledore
and not an impostor."

"I didn't..." Harry began, not entirely sure whether he was being
reprimanded or not.

"For future reference, Harry, it is raspberry... although of course,
if I were a Death Eater, I would have been sure to research my own jam
preferences before impersonating myself."


*For future reference, it is raspberry...*  

That's for bk7, that is.

And there's that nice irony, that DD and Molly both observe that a
Death Eater will have ascertained these things -- as Talisman notes:

> After Arthur forces Molly to go through the required question and
> answer series, Molly indicates her impatience with it and retorts:
> *I mean, a Death Eater might have forced the answer out of you
> before impersonating you!* (87).

It's a twist:  DD will use the signal, not because he is not a DE
disguised as DD, but because he is DD disguised as a DE.

Talisman:
> Rowling has intentionally underscored the feasibility of one wizard
> impersonating another.
<snip discussion of various methods>
 
> Whether by polyjuice, switching spells, simple transfiguration, or
> metamorphing, clearly the details of *how* are the least of our
> worries.

Allow me to muse a little more on the various methods --

Clearly, if Switched!DD has been/will be passing as Snape to LV and
the DEs, he needs a fuctional Dark Mark.  

Well, with polyjuice, transfiguration, and metamorphing, one will have
had to be provided.  No problem -- I'm sure DD and Snape were well up
to it.  And then, should DD want to reappear as himself, it's a very
simple process to change back.

A switching spell, if it means the two of them actually switch bodies,
is simplest as far as the working Mark goes -- it's part of the package.

The switching option has much deeper implications besides:

It's a bit boggling to think that DD not only looks like Snape, but he
is walking around in Snape's actual body.  It also makes a definite
echo or parallel with the theme of possession.  In the Ministry of
Magic, Voldemort possessed and tortured Harry's body and they
dared/pleaded "Kill me now, Dumbledore..." "Let him kill us...End it,
Dumbledore."  On the tower, Snape inhabits -- by mutual consent --
DD's body, is tortured by Voldemort, and pleads.  It's as if
possession is a perversion of what Snape and DD have done.

Now (still considering the switching spell), what of DD's body?  Is it
burned?  Or is it saved somewhere for when DD actually wants it back?

Here I'm very uncertain.  I think a dead body is a dead body, and if
DD's was truly AKed, then he can no longer inhabit it.  But on the
other hand, I believed that DD's "death" was faked before I ever saw
any switched!DD theories -- and if I can believe the body that fell
from the tower was not really killed then, I can still believe it now.
 Can I?  I can't lay my finger on it, but something bothers me about
that, whether Snape is living in DD's body now or actually dead (maybe
it's a thematic consideration).

So is DD stuck in Snape's body for life -- which could be expected to
go for another forty, sixty, one hundred years, barring an untimely
demise?  Not that I think the untimely demise is at all unlikely or
unforeseen...

Talisman:
> I initially thought that Switched!Snape was experiencing his Godric'
> s Hollow remorse in the potion scene.
> 
> But, on further reflection, I believe he is reliving the murder of
> his family as a penalty for his failure or refusal, as a young DE,
> do something the Dark Lord had ordered him to do.

This is chilling.  It would also be a very good candidate for at least
part of the reason DD trusts Snape.  And there could be more to it,
because surely even LV wouldn't be short-sighted enough to turn Snape
into a man with *nothing* (i.e., no one) left to lose.  True, LV may
merely assume Snape is as afraid of death as he is himself, but --
what if after this ordeal, LV threatened someone else to assure
Snape's future compliance?  Narcissa, perhaps?  Or -- did he take a
hostage?  Someone we don't know of yet, or don't know that we know?

Sorry to wander off the subject like that, but you start these ideas
like hares that run in all directions...

[And I'd like to take credit for that simile, but I think I read it
somewhere once...]

-----------------------------------------------------------

I see that zgirnius has posted, so I will add my response here:

zgirnius:
>>> However, I really find it hard to believe that the man in the Cave was
not Dumbledore. He's an important figure in the story with a particular
sort of relationship to Harry. And probably the single most beautiful,
moving moment in that relationship occurs during the Cave sequence,
when Dumbledore tells Hary, "I am not worried, Harry, because I am with
you." I just can't quite bring myself to believe that Rowling would
write this moment in for an impostor. (I can imagine her writing some
moving scene between Snape and Harry, that's not a problem-but with
Snape as Snape, if you see what I mean. At that point in the story the
line as a line from SNAPE to Harry, just does not have the same
impact). <<<

Annemehr:
I see what you mean.  I had the same trouble with the "COWARD" moment
at the end which you mention was not a problem for you.

I found it very rewarding to let go of my own preferences for a while
and just read the passages as if the switch were true.  It took some
time (the old assumptions just kept popping up), but eventually the
other reading came into focus.  The price I paid in losing DD's or
Snape's utterances of certain lines is more than made up for the gains
when said by the other.

At the very *least,* I now have two very stimulating ways to read the
book. :)

Okay, now let's look at that scene in the cave.

Well, okay.  In Talisman's theory, Snape is an impostor -- but he's an
impostor like Sydney Carton is an impostor, and it doesn't bother me.
 All will be revealed to the people most concerned in the end.

"I am not worried, Harry, because I am with you" is *easier* for
Dumbledore to say.  Snape on the other hand has to overcome his
emotions about Harry to utter it.  And, mind, he could still have
meant it.  Whatever Snape feels about Harry, I am quite sure he agrees
with DD that Harry must face LV in the end.  And he does it out of
faith in Dumbledore.

I am reminded of when Harry's down in the Chamber facing Diary!Riddle
and he asserts his loyalty to Dumbledore against all reasonable hope.
This is Snape's trip to another chamber, and he's facing LV's green
potion, and he puts his faith in Harry *through* his faith in DD.

Furthermore, here Snape prefigures in a smaller way what Harry must
eventually do for Snape: to acknowledge the other's part in the
battle.  (I think Snape most likely had come to terms with this to
himself long ago, only he had never allowed Harry to see it, and it's
still disguised here.  Harry, on the other hand, still has no clue
what Snape has done.)

That's how it works for me, anyway.

zgirnius:
>>>And on the other end--why would Dumbledore make such a point of
revealing to Harry that Snape was the Half-Blood Prince (as the man who
looks like Snape does in "Flight of the Prince"?) The COWARD moment, I
will grant you, works.<<<

Annemehr:
I think Harry needs to know, respect, and remember all that Snape has
taught him.  He will be using that book again, and Hermione at least
will have many useful notes from Potions and DADA classes.

It's the first lesson in who Snape really is.

And anyway, I can't imagine Switched!DD could take hearing Harry hurl
insults about Snape just then.

zgirnius:
>>>But the final reason I remain convinced that Snape was Snape and
Dumbledore was Dumbledore in the climactic scene is that DADA curse.
Under your scenario, Snape made a plan with Dumbledore, and it WORKED.<<<

Annemehr:
It all depends on exactly what the curse *is.*  The most we know is
that it causes DADA professors to only last one year.  I'm not sure it
means that DD and Snape, with eyes wide open, could not use the DADA
position to form and execute a plan successfully during that year.


Annemehr
mildly surprised at having typed all this