[HPforGrownups] Harry and Draco WAS: Re: The Train Scene GoF / Draco's Crying (long)

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 162594

> Alla:
>
> This is general comment of the sort, not directly replying to you,
> since I agree with you,but I thought that would be good enough place
> to put it, since I got a bit lost trying to find direct quotations I
> was thinking of.
>
> I keep reading this thread and getting more and more surprised from
> the analogies of Harry behaving like James towards Draco, etc.
>
> From several posts I got the impressions that in the initial
> confrontation between them Harry misperceived Draco's  intentions,
> etc. I mean, really from the moment they met Draco insulted **the
> other kind ** of witches and wizards and lo and behold this is the
> kind of witch Harry's mom was. And of course afterwards Draco
> manages to insult Harry's first friend.
>
> But even his insult of Ron falls behind Draco insulting muggleborn
> witches and wizards to me.
>
> What else is that if not confrontation?

Magpie:
It's Draco trying to present himself as a worthy social connection. It's 
Harry in their early interactions who is the first to turn it into a 
confrontation and a dismissal which Draco will not accept.

Draco's first speech about Muggleborns to Harry isn't confronting Harry, 
it's an attempt to find a connection with Harry, who is not Muggleborn 
(though I think Draco does bring it up as potentially something darker, 
since he's reacting to the more open hostility that Harry has injected into 
the scene). It upsets Harry because he's been raised Muggle so it makes him 
insecure--Draco is saying what he fears, that as someone not raised a wizard 
he won't ever fit into the WW. (And Harry also just doesn't like or trust 
that kind of bonding--understandably, he sees through it.) Draco is wrong, 
and parroting stuff he's learned at home and he's ignorant, but he's not 
intentionally confronting Harry with anything.  Looking at his life as seen 
in glimpses like in CoS he's unfortunately been trained to see this kind of 
connection as one he can trust more than healthier connections.

Harry is not misinterpreting this aspect of Draco, but it's not an all or 
nothing thing. Especially in this universe you can get one part of a person 
without getting another part. If you compare Draco to Slughorn, for 
instance, Slughorn's bigotry is more hidden. Harry picks it up from his 
sounding a bit too surprised about Lily's talent. In Draco's case, the 
bigotry is the surface personality. Understanding that Draco is a bigot is 
probably as difficult as understanding that he's got an English accent or 
blond hair. But it's not understanding him completely. I know you have said 
in the past, understandably, that given that surface bit why should Harry 
have any interest in finding out about anything deeper? That's how Harry 
feels--but I think it has still left him open to misinterpretations that 
have had a negative effect on Harry's life.

Alla:
> Of course maybe in Draco's head he wanted to become friends with
> Harry, I cannot pretend to know what was in his head at that time,
> but even if he did, he revealed what  he stands for to Harry.
>
> I am not surprised at all that Harry did not want to be friends with
> the bigot, I really don't.

Magpie:
He revealed what he stands for to Harry and Harry rejected it--exactly. That 
sounds very much like what James would say about Snape. When he says "it's 
more that he exists" that's imo what he means. (And Harry soon after 
basically agrees with that sentiment as applied to Malfoy.) It's not that 
Draco is, at first, picking on Harry intentionally, it's what he stands for 
that Harry hates and Harry makes that obvious.

Though it's not that he stands for Black Magic and Voldemort or bigotry. 
Harry doesn't like those things, but they're not motivating all his feelings 
about Malfoy (he's not hypersensitive to all those things universally).  In 
the early chapters of PS when we hear about the hatred Harry has for Malfoy, 
Malfoy's actions are described in such a way that make them almost seem like 
acts of aggression against Harry even when they've got nothing to do with 
him (or any of those bad things)--because Malfoy stands for things more 
personal for Harry than bigotry.

Alla:
> Harry probably already started to learn that Draco has a human side
> to him, but I completely disagree as I always do that Harry
> misinterpreted the part of Draco's personality that Draco revealed
> to him earlier.

Magpie:
I do think he misinterpreted him, and that he was completely unable to even 
begin to do otherwise given his experience of life.  What Harry associates 
with Draco most of all, what makes him hate him, is that as far as Harry is 
concerned, Draco thinks he's all that and he pushes Harry's own buttons of 
insecurity even when objectively Harry shouldn't be bothered so much by him. 
When Harry has bad dreams about Malfoy, Malfoy is usually laughing at him.

The Harry-filter is always working hard when it comes to that character. But 
as I said elsewhere recently, the Harry-filter isn't about making things up, 
it just looks at things in a way that isn't objective. Harry doesn't make up 
the things that Draco does that Harry thinks are bad, like calling people 
names and supporting Voldemort and provoking him. But I still don't think he 
sees him very realistically. He projects a lot of stuff onto him imo. So 
much that I think it's genuinely shocking to him to see him in position that 
he can't slot into either Draco being an insufferable git or Draco being 
rightfully taken down a peg but remaining an insufferable git.

James' treatment of Snape in the Pensieve is one isolated thing. Harry is 
never going to mimic that because he's not James and Draco is not Snape. But 
there are things in common, imo, very much in the way James and Harry judge 
Snape and Draco. And for both of them I think that judgment is part of both 
their darker sides and what makes them heroes.

-m