ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 162599

> zgirnius:
> It was this sort of reasoning that initially attracted me to the
> Grey! camp. But then it hit me...what was Dumbledore asking Snape 
> for? As you say, that he save the boys and carry out the plan. This
> is semantically different from "Kill me, Severus!", but under the 
> circumstances, logically equivalent. 
 
> So Snape does it. The following orders vs. making a choice seems a 
> false dichotomy, to me. Both are choices. And in either case, Snape 
> knows what Dumbledore wants, and Snape does it.


Jen: DDM makes some assumptions about the tower like saying 
Dumbledore and Snape have planned for Snape to kill him when the time 
comes or that the two of them are simpatico on the tower and know 
exactly how to proceed.  I'm just not reading as much premeditation 
on the tower as I once did. 

For Dumbledore he is in an impossible situation as he slips down the 
ramparts dying.  He has to think about Harry frozen and possibly 
being discovered if Malfoy suddenly remembers the two brooms or more 
people come through the door and find him when both are defenseless.  
Draco has lowered his wand but his future is far from assured and he 
and his family are in great danger now.  Dumbledore is surrounded by 
increasingly angry DE's with a Voldemort Horcrux hidden in his 
robes.  I just don't think the first thing he thinks about when Snape 
bursts through the door is the UV.

Snape would definitely think about the UV once his eyes sweep the 
room and he takes in what's happening and hears Draco can't go 
through with it thus activating the third clause in the Vow.  Whether 
he sees the brooms when he first walks in or when he comes closer to 
DD it's hard to say.  Either way at some point he realizes Harry is 
on the tower, too.

"Kill me" presumes both men have the UV uppermost in their minds. 
This is hard for me to believe with Dumbledore.  I think his 
*greatest* fear is for the boy who holds the secret now to defeating 
Voldemort and is the only person who knows about the Horcrux.  
Dumbledore's faced with a man with hatred and revulsion on his face 
who doesn't happen to think Harry is more valuable than Dumbledore 
because he doesn't know or believe everything that Dumbledore does.  
This same guy has let him down before in regards to Harry because of 
wounds that run 'too deep' and yet he's Dumbledore's only hope in 
this moment. Couldn't all that make Dumbledore plead for Harry's 
life?  Why can't the decision to kill DD be Snape's alone because he 
doesn't see another way out of the situation and not because 
Dumbledore is pleading to be killed?  I don't think Dumbledore had to 
be worrying about ways and means while the life is draining out of 
him.  It's more consistent to me that he would be thinking about 
Harry, Draco and the students below in his dying moments.

This idea works with the moment Harry says "Kill me like you killed 
him" because Snape is both enraged and in deep pain.  He can't 
explain anything, he can't taunt Harry back about how worthless he 
is, that HE should have died on the tower instead of Dumbledore. And 
Snape knows once again he royally messed up just like he did when he 
handed over the prophecy only he has no one to turn to this time. He 
killed the one person who gave him a second chance and helped him 
after his last big mistake.

So I'm saying there doesn't have to be a logical equivalency to 'kill 
me' and 'save Harry and continue with our plan' if JKR is looking 
ahead when she wrote the tower scene instead of looking back.  She 
knows what's in store for Snape and he may very well need blood on 
his hands for his mistake to get where she's taking him.

Jen