[HPforGrownups] Re: ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? Snape with Lifedebt

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 162607

>> Sarah:
>> We differ again.  I don't think that Harry, upon finding out that
>> Snape loved Lily, would suddenly think, "Gee maybe he's not such a bad
>> guy after all."  I think he'd be grossed out to the max, and hate
>> Snape more than ever.
>
> Sydney:
>
> I give Harry a little more credit.  If he found out that Snape really
> was in  an agony of remorse, that he moved heaven and earth to try to
> save Lily, that it was the defining thing of his life, and that from
> that day to this he'd been filled with self-hatred for what he'd done
> and devoted his life to bringing down Voldemort for her sake... yeah,
> I would hope he would at least change his opinion of Snape as nothing
> more than an evil self-centered git.

Now Shelley's response:
I think that I agree with Sarah on this point. Let's face it, if we accept 
the Snape/Lilly attraction (which I don't, btw), and we assume that Snape 
truly tried to do a selfless, kind act (which I also don't think he did), 
and then Harry finds out this, is this suddenly supposed to change ALL of 
Harry's experiences with Snape so far? I don't think it would. Snakes don't 
change their nature; leopards don't change their spots. Harry sees Snape as 
something to be loathed, and it's because of Snape's actions that Harry sees 
him that way. To say that he "once" tried to do something good would just be 
unbelievable. And to think that Snape had loved his mother- that is about on 
par with having Draco, who's also been known to do some nasty name-calling 
and ill-treatment to Muggleborns, to suddenly announce that he's in love 
with Hermione. A Slytherin, going after a Gryffindor, after he's made it 
clear that he doesn't like their kind? I think it would be enough to see 
Snape as sick and demented- a pervert who was placing his affections 
inappropriately. Lilly married someone else- she had a child by someone 
else. To have him STILL messing with their lives after they moved on is just 
sick- and I hardly think that Harry would see this as a good thing. Snape 
would have been an obsessed stalker. I think Harry would "grossed out to the 
max, and hate Snape more than ever".

I don't think we will have Rowling doing any about-faces with Snape- no 
sudden changes of heart, no softening to become the good guy, no 
hard-exterior Snape with this goody-ewey good center, no once heroic deeds 
in his past that changes Harry's mind about him. His fate is forever sealed 
as the evil, self-centered git, the slimy guy to be loathed. The readers 
have reason to hate him now that he's killed Dumbledore. There is NO 
forgiving of that, no matter how he may plead, beg, or try to undo his 
actions. Even if we assume that the two of them (DD and Snape) plotted this 
beforehand, I can't see Harry ever saying that this is "good", or "ok", or 
ever forgiving Snape for it. Dumbledore is dead, all because of Snape. Snape 
did have a choice- he could have saved DD, fought the death eaters. That's 
what Harry would have done, even at the risk of his own life.

I often hesitate to join this conversations about Snape's personality, 
especially when so many of these theories about who Snape really is are 
based upon a presumed Snape attraction for Lilly. I just don't think it ever 
happened. I just can't see Snape selflessly devoting his entire life to 
doing anything for anyone else. Even if he served Dumbledore, I have to 
think that he's got his own motives for it. DD provided him a job, kept his 
ass out of Azkaban, and Snape played along because it suited himself to do 
so, for more than just those obvious reasons. He was a double spy, and I 
think that as so often as true with double spies, that they "play" loyal to 
both parties, and both end up thinking that "he's their man", but only that 
double spy knows which way he really will turn when the hand is forced. I 
think Dumbledore was being wronged all this time, fooled by Snape, but he 
should have seen the warnings. How he treated Harry was a true indicator of 
his real character. If I want to put this in the terms that others have 
used, Grey!Snape is just the outward manifestation of his double-crossing- 
that he plays the part he needs to play at the time he needs to do it, and 
that Evil!Snape is the carefully calculating, patient man who will know the 
right opportunity when he sees it. It's a contrast to Lucius Malfoy, who got 
impatient and short-sighted with the diary. Snape is willing to wait years 
if necessary. I can see him as seeing the post at Hogwarts as his advantage 
as that double spy- access to ingredients and the "lab" to keep 
experimenting. He wanted the other post, the DADA, because he wanted his 
research in the Dark Arts to have a "professional excuse". But he's 
calculating, and will make use of his talents either way to get what he 
wants in the end.

Shelley