The Train Scene GoF / Draco's Crying (long)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162629

> >>bboyminn:
> What we are doing now is dancing around the definition of
> 'bully'.  What you seem to be implying is that a 'bully'
> is someone who DOES hit you.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I've not meant to be dancing.  I'm trying to be very clear.  When it 
comes to Harry, Draco is not a bully.  He cannot be.  It's not a 
question of the *type* of threat poised.  It's a question of *can* a 
threat be poised.

Draco Malfoy cannot threaten Harry Potter.  Harry is too popular, too 
well-connected, too wealthy, and too athletic to be threatened by 
Draco.  Ergo, Draco cannot play the role of "bully" in their scenes.

Draco *tries* to play the bully.  Or, to be more accurate, Draco 
tries to rebalance the scales.  He tries to pull himself on a level 
equal to or above Harry.  But he fails.  Every single time. 

> >>bboyminn:
> But Draco is the provocateur. He is the one that always
> initiates the harassment and teasing of Harry & Co.
> Harry would gladly spend his life ignoring Draco, if only
> Draco would let him. Why does Draco 'wind Harry up'?
> Answer: because it does wind Harry up.

Betsy Hp:
I like what Magpie has to say about this here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/162566
> >>Magpie:
> <snip>
> You'd think that the only thing that would keep Draco in the game   
> after that would be his own efforts, but actually Harry keeps it up 
> all on his own, watching Malfoy and hating him.
> <snip>
> Oddly, noticing the way Harry describes Draco in those scenes in PS 
> added something to Draco's usual behavior for me, because I just    
> never buy the idea that Draco's just so stuck up he can't get it   
> through his head Harry always beats him because that's just not    
> Draco's character. Draco's *particularly* sensitive to getting hurt-
> -twitching at the mention of Moody's name, getting jumpy in        
> Hagrid's class. There's no way he doesn't remember getting hit by  
> Harry and his friends; but his need to provoke is stronger. What   
> suddenly struck me in reading (with amusement) ickle!Harry's       
> immediate and true hatred of Malfoy was that I could actually      
> suddenly see what part of the appeal might be. Sure nobody likes to 
> get beaten up, but if you've got somebody who always seems so close 
> to blowing his stack around you, I can see making it into a show to 
> give yourself a little more control.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
It's hard to put this clearly, so I *know* it'll be misinterperted, 
but something I've always admired about the character of Draco is 
that he *doesn't* give up.  That even though Harry is definitely the 
bigger man on campus, Draco does his best to make sure Harry doesn't 
get a smooth ride, even while I like Harry.

Also, the Trio don't ignore Draco.  At least, not until OotP really, 
where they finally have their hands full.  (Though IIRC, isn't there 
some point where Hermione dashes off page because she dislikes how 
Draco's handling his prefect duties? Plus, it's the Trio (and 
Hagrid?) who put all this pressure on Harry to beat Draco in the big 
quidditch final in... PoA?.)  So it's not as if Draco is carrying the 
burden of their relationship here.

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> What matters is that Draco is threatening and intimidating the      
> gang, and he doesn't know when to stop. 
> <snip>
> Most kids when faced with this type of intimidation just
> bear it.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Were the trio *intimidated* by Draco?  They seemed anything but.  And 
I have an especially hard time seeing Harry in the role of 
intimidated victim, *finally* taking a stand.  He's too aggressive to 
take on that role. 

> >>bboyminn:
> As to whether this indicent will prey on anyone's 
> conscience in the future. I think not. Certianly, there 
> will always be an underlying emotional element to it, but
> kids are resilient and incidences like this are typically
> left behind and forgotten. Life goes on.

> >>Quick_Silver:
> Two points here...I think partly JK may be tying in Harry's reaction
> in that scene to the overall character flaw that Harry has of being
> reckless, hot-headed, heavy with the wand, etc...basically all the
> things that Snape moans about. Secondly for Harry regretting that
> scene specifically, I don't think he'll regret that scene
> specifically unless it somehow comes up. On the other hand I think
> that Harry will specifically regret the bathroom incident because   
> (if I remember correctly) he still gets a guilty squirm months (or 
> is it weeks?) later.

Betsy Hp:
I agree that it's unlikely any of the players will think back on this 
particular scene. As Quick_Silver pointed out, it plays true to 
character.  But it is something, IMO, for Harry to grow beyond.

And I agree that the bathroom scene is the more likely to be 
revisited.  It's fresher and, I think it's more clearly something 
Harry is a bothered by in some fashion.  And since the bathroom scene 
kind of carries through the ugliness of the train scene, I'm fine 
with that.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > So, I'm not sure that book 7 will have Harry thinking back to the
> > train scene in GoF and regreting his behavior once Draco was down.
> > But perhaps there'll be a moment where he could behave in such a
> > way again, and this time he chooses not to? And um, explains to   
> > Ron and Hermione why he's hesitating?

> >>Quick_Silver:
> I actually hopes that doesn't happen because I think there's no need
> for Malfoy to be down in front of Harry...Harry is the only person
> (aside from Malfoy obviously) that show the choice Malfoy made on   
> the Tower. That at least deserves a handshake between the two of   
> them in my mind.

Betsy Hp:
I'm not sure where Harry will be when he and Draco meet up in book 
7.  (Sometimes I assume a lesson has been learned, and come the next 
book, it hasn't been.  Though granted, JKR has little time to work in 
now. <g>)  But really, the downed enemy could be anybody.  And it'd 
probably be more poignent if it were actually a downed *enemy*.  Like 
Peter Pettigrew or something.  Just something to show Harry has grown 
up.

Betsy Hp