[HPforGrownups] Re: ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[Scarah]

No: HPFGUIDX 162652

Magpie:
But it's the self-eviscerate that's the problem, not agreeing to kill
Dumbledore. If he doesn't want to eviscerate himself why is he taking a
suicide pact?

Sarah:
I know there's a lot to read here, but as I've been on about quite
consistently, I believe that something as bad or worse will happen to
Snape if he doesn't follow along.  Like if you had to go to work on
Monday, but had already taken a death pact that you would go to work
on Monday, so what's one more?

Magpie:
The way DDM actually answers these questions is that Snape is driven by
remorse over the events at Godric's Hollow, which fuels both his desire to
protect Harry and his hatred of him. It made him switch sides, and he became
loyal to Dumbledore.

Sarah:
Remorse, which is almost impossible absent Snape/Lily, which won't
happen narratively because Harry would be in the bucket puking the
rest of the book.  It is exactly this line of thinking which led me to
plot device/Life Debt reasoning.

Magpie:
The Debt itself, if it's the
kind of magical contract you describe here, wouldn't hop over to Harry. It
would play out on Snape at James' death and he would die or something worse.
He didn't.

Sarah:
Well, Dumbledore is Dumbledore.  He can do a lot of things.  A lot of
things are not canon.    Life Debt has a lot more potential than
Snape/Lily, in my opinion.  And, I didn't originate the "upgraded Life
Debt" idea, that was someone else.

Jen:
Whatever the point of
connection I hope it's not Lily.  Her empathy of Snape leading to
Harry recognizing empathy in himself and Snape's love for Lily is
fine as long as Harry and Snape never have to have a *conversation*
about it!  Ick, ick.

Sarah:
Haha, yes, it would be terrible.  I also think it would be terrible if
Harry had to find it out second hand though.  One way or the other, he
would be grossed out.

Carol:
>Sarah:
> Another thing Snape can do is attempt to revive or cure Dumbledore.

>Carol:
>With four DEs right there on the tower? They'd kill him if the UV
>didn't. And besides, I doubt that he would know the antidote to a
>complex poison without carefully examining Dumbledore, adn he
>certainly didn't have it in his pocket. A bezoar won't cure all
>poisons, and some--probably including this one, compounded by
Voldemort himself--have no antidotes. Not an option. Besides, he has
>to keep his cover.

>Sarah:
> If Dumbledore
> has been working to establish Snape's DE status better than ever
> before, as I believe, then doing this in front of the witnesses
> present would not be good for just about anyone involved.

Sarah:
I see what you did there.  My original text without the commentary in
the middle was making the same exact same point as you were.  No, I'm
not crazy, I was making the same point as you.

Sarah