[HPforGrownups] Trusting Snape

[P J]

No: HPFGUIDX 148910



Tammy :

>Okay, so you think that DD putting so much hope and trust in Harry and 
>Snape being able
>to act like grown ups is moronic.  Why?  It was wrong, obviously, but how 
>can it be considered >moronic?

PJ:

Because DD's already tried that with Snape and Harry via the lessons and 
realized it was a fiasco.   Harry and Snape don't trust each other enough to 
work together!   At 150 yrs old DD would have the intelligence as well as 
this past experience to finally see this and know that it would turn into a 
disaster even if both tried very hard to do as he wished.

Tammy:

Twists and turns?  What twists and turns?  It all reads perfectly
straightforward to me.  I don't understand what you mean, here.

I know it does.  The people who trust Snape and the people who don't seem to 
be reading two different books - or reading the same book in two different 
ways.  Both views *must* be considered valid at this point though since we 
don't know what the author intends until the last book is finally released 
so I suppose we just agree to disagree?  :)

Tammy:

>Why does my conviction that DD did not plan the Tower fiasco automatically
>lead to an ESE/OFH!Snape reading?  That makes no sense whatsoever.

PJ:
Well, for me it says that Dumbledore was not expecting Snape to come running 
up to AK him but rather that he'd been waiting for Snape to bring the posse 
to dispose of the DE's so he could work with Draco as well as find an 
antidote for that green potion.

And I believe it was Potioncat (if not, my apologies to whoever it was) who 
brought up the "It's my mercy that matters now" speech.  The way I read that 
was that even wandless DD had more power than Draco did and if Draco 
couldn't be reached than he would go the way of the other DE's once Snape 
got there.  DD was trying to extend mercy but he wasn't going to be a fool 
about it!

Tammy:

His own feelings towards Harry frighten him, I believe -- they're so much
stronger than he's had to deal with in over a century (my guess).  He's out
of practice with emotional responses, and doesn't understand them anymore,
except possibly as an intellectual exercise.

Y'know, I also believe that his depth of feeling for Harry scares him (which 
is why he went on and on about it at the end of OOtP) so at least we agree 
on something.  :)  But to say he doesn't understand emotional responses 
except as an intellectual exercise makes him way too much like Voldermort 
for me.

 > Tammy:
<snip> ... he would have done anything to protect
 >his students, regardless of the price one teacher must be called upon to
 >pay.

PJ:

But again this in my eyes makes DD no better than Voldermort since it would 
say that the plan is much more important than the people involved.  To show 
Dumbledore as someone who feels people are of no more worth once their job 
is finished isn't what my vision of Dumbledore is about.

Let's say for arguement sake that you're right and Snape is solidly DD's 
man. Well, if after 14+ years of sacrifice and deprivation all Snape 
receives for his loyalty and hard, dangerous work on Dumbledore's behalf is 
to be hunted down like a rabid dog and either thrown in prison or killed by 
an Auror for AK'ing DD - especially if some are right and it was on DD's 
orders?  What a horror!!  That would make DD's "retirement plan" for loyal, 
competent service no better than Voldermort's!  Sorry, I just can't buy 
that!  Dumbledore is so much better than that!

Tammy:

Well, have we yet seen any *competent* DE action?  What we've seen, first
hand, has been more like disorganized mob work, and a bunch of toadies
grovelling in the graveyard.

PJ:

No, we really haven't.  Even Voldermort's been bested over and over again by 
an underaged wizard so I think we have to conclude that the only thing that 
separates the DE's and the rest of the wizarding world isn't their skill, 
but the fact that they are willing and eager to use unforgivables while no 
one else will.

PJ