Being Good and Evil ( Draco and a bit of Ron)/Harry as DD man

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 154705

> Betsy Hp:
> What murder?  I'm talking about Lucius being among the crowd that 
> twirled the muggle family in the air.  No one died there.  And 
Draco 
> doesn't turn on his father because he loves him and because muggle-
> baiting is not seen as a horrible wrong within the WW.  We saw 
that 
> earlier with the twins.

Alla:

I was talking about Cedric. Sorry.

 
> > >>Betsy Hp: 
> > > And I look to Harry's response to the twins toying with their 
> > > chosen muggle to back up the argument that the person doing 
the 
> > > action *will* affect how that action is perceived.  Yes, 
it's    
> > > morally more mature, I think, to look at the action and 
divorce 
> > > it from your emotional feelings about the people involved.  
But 
> > > it's *hard*. And for some reason Draco is expected to make 
this 
> > > massive leap, but Harry is not. 
> 
> > >>Alla:
> > Because Harry is ALREADY on the right side.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> This is where you lose me.  It's bad for Lucius to bait muggles 
and 
> his own son, who loves him very much, should turn his back on his 
> family because he father did such an evil thing.  However, when 
the 
> twins bait muggles, it's okay.
> 
> The *only* difference I can see is that Harry is considered "good" 
> and he likes the twins, and he's okay with their behavior.  So it 
> comes down to whatever Harry says is okay is okay, and if he turns 
> around and says that same thing is bad, even though he's 
> contradicting himself, everyone around him should intuit that he's 
> changed his mind.  Draco should then drop his family because they 
> bait muggles, and join with the Weasleys, who also bait muggles 
but 
> in a way that amuses Harry.
> 
> I do agree that Harry is on the right side.  But that doesn't give 
> him (or his friends) a free pass.  And Draco is on the wrong side, 
> but it's asking too much of him, IMO, to magically realize it.  
> Especially if the "good" side is engaged in the same sort of 
> behavior.

Alla:

NO, I meant that Harry is on the right side and he is not supposed 
to have crisis of faith, not specifically in relation to this 
accident.

I was trying to avoid discussing it,honestly. I love Twins to death, 
but even if one does not, IMO ( I understand you disagree, but that 
is how I feel) that first they are supposed to be funny and second  
they turned on on BAD guys only.

To me Dursleys are bad guys, whether they are Muggles or not does 
not matter.

Twins to me are the tools of carmical justice. Are they sometimes 
over the top?

Yes, sure, but I find it hysterical. I think that JKR is not 
intending her bad guys to get away , so she cannot call social 
services on Dursleys, instead we get Twins and later Dumbledore.

I cheer them up, again specifically in book context, of course I 
would not advocate that in RL, but in Potterverse, comparing them 
with DE?

I just don't see it at all. Sorry.

Besides, I think you mentioned earlier that the muggles whom DE were 
baiting also could have been cruel or something. Well, to tell you 
the truth IF we would have been shown that, I would say that this 
was a carmic justice to those muggles.

Does it make sense? It would not make muggle baiting right thing for 
me, it would have still been evil, but if before the Cup JKR showed 
us that those muggles are killers or child abusers, I would have 
been like - oh well, it is wrong, but they had it coming, again in 
the books only.

I just think that JKR's books are not the once where author is shy 
of giving out moral judgments sometimes. IMO of course.

But JKR did not show us anything of the kind and that is why I think 
that Muggles who were baited by DE are innocent people, who did NOT 
deserve what was done to them and Dursleys deserved everything they 
got and more.


 
> Betsy Hp:
> I actually agree, as I said above, that Draco will have to go 
> through the bigger reevaluation.  But I don't fault him for having 
> to go through something like that, and I certainly don't fault him 
> for not recognizing the need until he's fully faced with the true 
> horror of Voldemort.

Alla:

Right. I do fault him for agreeing to assasinate Dumbledore, I fault 
him a lot. :)


> Betsy Hp:
> See!!  So if disfiguring someone for life is such good behavior no 
> one should feel any guilt about it, how the heck is Draco supposed 
> to decide that his beloved family are the bad ones?  I mean, where 
> is the difference?  Umbridge disfigures those who cross her, 
> Hermione disfigures those who cross her.  Where's the difference?

Alla:

The difference is that Marietta got it for BETRAYING DA. And yes, I 
think the fact that she betrayed Light side matters. As I said 
earlier wouldn't you agree that Snape's betrayal of Voldemort and 
Peter betrayal of Potters should be judged differently precisely of 
WHOM they betrayed?

Otherwise, aren't they both Judas? ( If Snape is DD!M obviously)

Didn't Snape supposedly turned in the whole bunch of his friends?

Why? because they were doing very bad things, no?

JMO,

Alla