Baptism/Christianity in HP: was Looking for God in Harry Potter

[leslie41]

No: HPFGUIDX 153556


> > > a_svirn:
> > > Why is it logical? Are you saying that Lilly's sacrifice is of 
> > > the same kind than that of Christ? 
> > 
> > Leslie41:
> > Yes, in a way.  In that we all have the opportunity to be Christ 
> > for another person, and see Christ in others.  Jesus said that 
> > the way his followers would be known as Christians was because 
> > of their love for one another, and there was no greater good 
> > than someone die for their friend.  
> 
> a_svirn:
> This is not what Christ's sacrifice was about. It was about 
> spiritual salvation of mankind, not about physical survival of a 
> friend.

Leslie41:
>From a Christian perspective, I would say that's rather short-
sighted.  
 
> > Leslie41:
> > The parental nature of god--as "god the father"--is also part of 
> > God's triune nature.  
 
> a_svirn:
> It is, isn't it? And in Christian tradition we have Father 
> sacrificing his beloved Son, whereas in the HP story Lilly 
> sacrificed herself so that her son would live. I'd say there are 
> more differences than similarities here. 

Leslie41:
Yes, if you are hung up on the essentially "masculine" nature of 
Christ.  Many people, including some of the most famous Christians 
of all time, see Christ as both mother and father.  Julian of 
Norwich, for one.  Christ's sacrifice transcends gender, is what I'm 
saying.
   
> > > A_svirn:
> > > That would mean that either Lilly was somewhat presumptuous, or
> > > that Christ made His ultimate sacrifice so that Harry would be 
> > > able to kill Voldemort one of these days.
> > 
> > Leslie41:
> > Well, I don't see how it follows that Lily was presumptuous. 
> 
> a_svirn: 
> It follows if she saw herself as a second Christ or something. 

Leslie:
Wha?  I don't see how that follows at all.  
> 
> > Leslie41:
> > But as for Christ's "ultimate sacrifice," well if one is a 
> > Christian, one believes that he made that sacrifice out of 
> > love.  And it is love as well that will eventually allow Harry 
> > to defeat Voldemort. It's not that Harry can kill Voldemort 
> > because of Christ's sacrifice, but perhaps more that Christ's 
> > sacrifice and teachings in part provide a kind of paradigm for 
> > Harry's behavior, whether known to Harry or not.
> 
> a_svirn:
> I hope you are not saying that love is something only Christians 
> are capable of.

Leslie41:
No.  But taken in combination with the other Christian 
symbols/occurances, I believe it's part of a pattern.