Of essence divided?

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 154372

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "houyhnhnm102" <celizwh at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Peggy:
> 
> > I don't think his "have you forgotten our orders" 
> > can be taken one way or the other, as far as his 
> > being a loyal DE or DDM!Snape... we know only that 
> > they have been given that order.
> 
> houyhnhnm:
> 
> We only know that Snape *says* they have been given 
> that order. There is no corroborating evidence.
> 
> I see what you are saying. That Snape could only have 
> dared to make such a claim if they *had* been given 
> such orders and Snape knew about it and the DEs knew he knew.
> 
> But see what follows from that assumption. For it 
> to be true, Snape would have to have been in on the 
> plans to bring Death Eaters into Hogwarts.  Draco 
> says he wasn't.<snip>

Annemehr:
I don't believe that what you are saying actually does follow from 
Peggy's assumption.  The orders, if they were actually given, need 
not apply to this particular mission alone, but can be something 
very general that LV told all his DEs at some earlier 
time: "Whatever happens, no one is to harm Potter; he's mine."

In fact, there is actually some corroborating evidence, in GoF, at 
the end of ch. 34: "Stand aside! I will kill him! He is mine!" 
shrieked Voldemort, as Harry ran for the Portkey.

Annemehr


  Of course Draco may have been left 
> partially out of the loop himself.  He certainly was 
> not informed of the fact that Fenrir Greyback was 
> coming along for the ride.  But if Snape had a higher 
> security clearance, so to speak, than Draco, isn't it 
> logical that he would have been told of what Draco was 
> trying to accomplish in the RoR. 
> 
> But then, if Snape was in on the plan to invade Hogwarts, 
> and he is DDM, Dumbledore would have to known also, and 
> Dumbledore claims not to have known.
> 
> On the other hand, we know from Karkaroff (and from 
> everything we've seen of Voldemort) that Voldemort 
> keeps his minions in the dark.  Like all tyrants, 
> he maintains contol by keeping his followers suspicious 
> and jealous of each other, pretending to have favorites 
> but trusting no one.  This creates a fertile atmosphere 
> for a spinner to work in and Snape is a master spinner.
> 
> The crew of DEs at Hogwarts that night were a pretty 
> dim-witted lot.  It is hard to imagine that Amycus and 
> Alecto, for example, have ever even been in a position 
> to *imagine* that they were the Dark Lord's favorites.  
> Here is Big Bad Snape, who *has* done a pretty good job 
> (as we see at Spinner's End) of convincing the other DE's 
> that he is Voldemort's right hand man, telling them to 
> "remember our orders".  Even if they never heard any such 
> thing, the DEs are not going to question him.  They aren't 
> going to want to admit that they were left out of the loop.  
> "Oh, yeah, *those* orders."
> 
> I think there is a very good possibility that Snape was 
> bluffing.  At any rate there can be no certainty that 
> Voldemort did really give such an order; therefore, I 
> don't think it is wise to use that *fact* as a premise 
> on which to build other arguments.
>