Snape, Apologies, and Redemption--Lupin vs. DD

[lanval1015]

No: HPFGUIDX 152590

New poster here. *waves*  Might as well jump in here.


> Lupinlore:
> > Hmmm.  I don't think it is patently ridiculous.  I rather think 
> > that teenage Lupin probably did, in his heart of hearts, rather 
> > approve of what happened to Snape.  Lupin does have many faults. 
> >  <snip>  I rather think Harry was right to be incredulous when 
> > Lupin claimed to "neither like nor dislike Severus Snape."  
> > Sounds like a case of denial to me.

> Leslie41:
> Lupin refuses to participate.  Not only that, he's closed himself 
> off and does not want to be a part of any of what James and Sirius 
> are doing at all.  He doesn't even want to see it.  And behind 
> that book, he is frowning.  He hates what his friends are doing to 
> Snape.  It's Wormtail who is anticipating and enjoying what his 
> friends are about to do.  Not Lupin.    

Lanval:
Frankly, I think  Lupin's attitude can be interpreted in a number of 
ways. He clearly does not approve of what's going on, but the frown 
might just as well be a kind of "don't-get-me-in-trouble-guys-you-
know-as-prefect-I-shouldn't-let-this happen..." reaction. Personally 
I've never seen this as a sign of deep sympathy for Snape. Let's 
remember Snape was spying on Lupin and his friends. Why would Lupin 
have any sort of friendly feelings for a boy who might destroy what 
little future he had?

> Leslie41:
> That may be very correct, if what we're talking about are Snape's 
> actions as a Death Eater.  But we really don't know exactly what 
> he did when he was amongst Voldemort's willing minions.  Or what 
> he's done as a spy.

Lanval:
But we DO know quite well what the Death Eaters were up to at the 
time. They were going around murdering and torturing. We DO know 
what happened to those like Regulus Black, who refused to do 
Voldemort's bidding. And we DO know that Snape joined the DE's, of 
his own free will. So why not talk about it? 
Lupinlore was, I believe, talking specifically about Snape needing 
to be punished for abuse of children, but if we're going to bring 
Sirius into the discussion (on a charge completely unrelated to the 
subject of child abuse), then I think we should not just sweep 
Snape's Death Eater days under the table and say, oh well, we don't 
know what went on there, so we'll just disregard it. 

Leslie41:
> But if you're comparing Snape's actions towards his students to 
> Black's actions towards Snape (and who knows who else?), 

Lanval:
Who knows, indeed. 

Leslie41:
> you're manifestly wrong, unless Snape has attempted to murder one 
> of his charges.  Remember that Black's guilty of attempted murder.  
> That's certainly a far more egregious sin than anything I can think 
> of regarding Snape.

Lanval:

Sirius Black is not guilty of attempted murder. He's guilty of 
telling a nosy kid, who had a mind to get four other boys expelled, 
the way into a secret passage. It was Snape's own decision to enter.

What business did Snape have spying on Lupin, when he knew that 
Dumbledore must have sanctioned whatever went on? After all, Snape 
saw Lupin with Madame Pomfrey, did he not? (And why, why would Snape 
listen to ANYTHING Sirius told him to do?)

To me, (as to Alla, who explains it so much better in her post) 
Dumbledore's remark about his memory being as good as ever indicates 
that Snape's role might not simply have been that of Innocent Little 
Lamb, tricked into the lion's ..er, wolf's den, by the Evil Sirius 
Black. 

And while we're talking Sirius and Snape, and compare accumulated 
sins, we should remember that Snape really DID try to have Sirius  
(and possibly Lupin!) killed at the end of POA -- worse, Kissed by a 
Dementor -- without a trial, without listening to the evidence. Even 
after he is told that Sirius is innocent, he throws a spittle-flying 
tantrum for not getting his way. And if Snape is DDM all the way... 
what reason would he have to doubt Dumbledore? 

Lanval, who's torn between being supremely baffled and highly 
amused, having read the recent Sexy!Snape posts...