[HPforGrownups] CHAPDISC: HBP16, A Very Frosty Christmas

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 152847

 QUESTIONS
2.  So what's your best guess of what the twins' attempted
Unbreakable Vow was all about?  What do you think they tried to get
Ron to do?  Do you think they understood exactly what they were
doing?  How do you image these youngsters (they'd have been about 7)
would've learned about UVs?

Debbie:
Frankly, the whole idea that a pair of 7-year-olds would know about UVs
smells like a great big Flint.  Since the penalty for failing to keep a UV
is death, it screams Dark Magic to me and is just not the sort of thing they
would've seen at home.  Nor does it seem possible that they could have
gotten their information from the wireless, which wouldn't show them the
handholding etc. Maybe they heard about

About the only explanation I can conjure up is that at the tail end of VWI,
Imperius!Arthur was forced to enter into a UV and the 3-year-old twins
somehow managed to witness it ::imagines numerous twisted scenarios of what
Arthur might have committed himself to do:: and then the twins, missing the
death part, concluded that this would be an excellent way to get little
brother to do their bidding, even better than threatening him with spiders.

3.  Is it significant that Ginny has told Fred & George about Ron &
Lav-Lav, given the "encounter" with Ron when he happened upon her &
Dean snogging?  Do you think she's always talked about Ron to F&G? Do
you think she was hoping they'd transfer their "nosing in" to Ron's
love life from hers?

Debbie:
Is there evidence that the twins are nosing into Ginny's love life?  The
three of them seem like allies to me, and I sense that she gets away with
stuff that Ron wouldn't.  Though if Ginny were truly the Twins' heir
apparent, JKR should have had her needle Ron in front of the Twins.
But instead she got F&G to do her work for her.  The Twins are quite
effective at this sort of thing; poor Ron has no ability to respond in kind
and resorts to pathetic knife-throwing; I don't think Ginny could pull it
off like the twins did; she has too much fire.

4. Fred waits to call Percy a prat until after Molly has left the
kitchen.  Does this show there is a side to him which cares about others'
feelings?  Or does he simply fear the Wrath of Molly?

Debbie:
I don't think Fred's feelings for Molly were ever in doubt, though as I read
the scene Fred's comment came as she was leaving, not after she left.  It's
just Fred's way of telling Molly that her distress (she turned away before
responding why Percy wasn't coming) was justified.

I can't give Fred much credit for this, though.  IMO Fred himself should
share some of the blame for driving Percy away.  If Fred had shown some
sensitivity toward Percy's feelings instead of publicly humiliating him back
in the day, perhaps he'd be eating dinner with the family instead of paying
business calls with Scrimgeour on Christmas day.

6.  When Ron says that DD & his dad are likely to protest that Snape
is not really intending to help Draco but is only trying to get
information from him, Harry says, "They didn't hear him.  No one's
that good an actor, not even Snape."  Contrast this with Snape's
statement to Draco:  "Where do you think I would have been all these
years, if I had not known how to act?"  It seems to me that this is
the crux of the Harry-Snape "problem" and the "problem" for the
fandom in trying to figure out Severus Snape.  *Is* he acting?  When
is he acting and when is he not?  How good an actor is he?  Is Harry
correct that "even Snape" is not that good an actor?

Debbie:
What Carol said.

8.  Comments on the "gnome angel"?  Yet another hilarious stunt by
the twins, or yet another sign that the twins lack a conscience
and/or are cruel?

Debbie:
Nah, this doesn't bother me at all.  He doesn't seem to be hurting, just
stupefied (though JKR doesn't tell us how the gnome was attached to the tree
. . . .). Unless that gold paint is lead-based and toxic, that is.  Gnomes
aren't smart enough to be humiliated, so as far as I'm concerned they leave
him up there until twelfth night.

9.  Many people fault Molly (or Molly & Ginny) for not being warm and
welcoming with Fleur.  Is there anyone who, to the contrary, finds
Fleur's behavior in the Christmas Eve scene to be rude ["Eez eet
over?  Thank goodness, what an `orrible--"]?  Or should Molly not
have subjected everyone to Celestina Warbeck in the first place?

Debbie:
I imagine that Celestina's warbles resemble an early 20th century 78 rpm
record (Alma Gluck, anyone?), which in itself might set Fleur off.

More importantly, though, both of Celestina's songs concern unwilling love:
the first involves a cauldron of love potion, and the second portrays a
victim whose heart has been charmed away.  Fleur's trademark veela power,
which attracts men against their will, is a bit too much like what's going
on in those songs for comfort.  They are 'orrible songs because they remind
her that the Weasley women have treated her as though she has stolen away
Bill against his will using her veela charm.  I don't blame her for trying
to drown them out.

She can be rude and condescending, though, so it cuts both ways.


12. Why would werewolves have a better life under Voldemort?

Debbie:
Anarchy, providing free reign to feast on all the available children, commit
mayhem and otherwise avenge their pitiful treatment at the hands of wizards
over the years.  How else can a werewolf eat if they can't get a job?

13.  Are you surprised Molly falls for the story that Percy couldn't
stand to not see his family since they were in the neighborhood?  Why
or why not?

Debbie:
Why would she not want to believe it?  She has continually demonstrated that
she continues to care very much for Percy, no matter how much of a prat he
may be.  I think she was very touched by Scrimgeour's explanation for the
visit and chose to believe it, but would react the same way even if
she acknowledged that Scrimgoeur was pulling a fast one on her.  This is an
opportunity for her to let Percy know that her feelings haven't changed.
And, maybe, to atone for having pushed him to a ministry job in the first
place.

And once Percy was in the door, she might have made progress but for the
parsnip missiles he was pelted with after Harry went out the door.  Unlike
the gnome, I thought there was nothing funny about this.  It was a very sad
scene; an opportunity for reconciliation was lost.

14.  Percy could be so many things.  What do you think?  Is he good
but misguided?  Is he ESE?  Is he just a prat?  What explains his
behavior?  Is he embarrassed? proud? ambitious? hurt?

Debbie:
I cannot be persuaded to cash in my membership in P.I.N.E.  (Percy Is Not
Evil.)

Poor Percy.  His current situation springs from his unenviable position as
the odd child out in the eccentric Weasley family, and the exacerbation of
those differences caused by the Twins' endless teasing and Percy's inability
to laugh it off.  The Twins live to tease, while Percy is too sensitive to
take it lightheartedly, and too much of a straight man to give it back.  If
the Weasleys were the Marx Brothers, Percy would be Zeppo.  Nice guy, but
useful only as a foil for the others' jokes.  Just as Zeppo was soon dropped
from the Marx Brothers films, at some point after PS/SS the Twins
ceased dropping hints to Percy (such as the first Christmas dinner) that it
was all in fun, and Percy became estranged from the family.

Percy's alignment with the Ministry appears to be a refuge.  Having always
been rewarded by Molly for his dedication to her Ministry ambitions for her
sons, he expected his family to be proud of his advancement at the
Ministry.  Given Percy's rigid approach to rules and authority, I think he
was genuinely surprised and hurt by Arthur's reaction in OOP to his
promotion, and genuinely thought sticking with the Ministry was the right
thing to do.  Despite events proving him wrong, he can't swallow his
pride and still hasn't come to terms with his family's desertion of him.

In this scene, Percy's refusal to look at any of the Weasleys except Molly
shows that he is still badly hurt by their treatment.  He is too proud to
acknowledge this, of course.  Molly, who always supported him and welcomes
her prodigal son with open arms, gets better treatment.

I'm getting into the next chapter, but the scene would be incomplete
without knowing that after Harry and Scrimgeour left, Percy was pelted with
parsnips from the dinner table and left in humiliation.  JKR states that
Fred, George and Ginny all claimed credit for the attack.  The fact that Ron
(another frequent target of the Twins' teasing) did not join in suggests
that we should have some sympathy for Percy and not simply write him off as
a prat.  In this scene the prats were the adult wizards who claimed to have
played a silly childish trick on a brother who took a risk merely by showing
up.

Did I mention that after all he's done (and however much the Twins
contributed to his estrangement, Percy remains responsible for his own
actions), I still like Percy?  I expect great things from him in Book 7, and
will be greatly disappointed if he doesn't get any action in Book 7.

16.  What do you think of Scrimgeour now? Compare him to Fudge, if
you like.

Debbie:
JKR is so good at caricturing politicians bent on maintaining their own
popularity in order to stay in office.  Scrimgeour, however, is much more
polished as a politician than Fudge ever was.  Fudge was too easily swayed
by his advisors.  He wasn't really in control, as Umbridge showed by taking
matters into her own hands in OOP.  Scrimgeour, OTOH, is clearly in control
of his own machinations, as his conversation with Harry shows.  And his
machinations are more subtle.  But no less corrupt.

Debbie


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