Canon for OFH!Lucius

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 160969

> 
> Neri:
> Well, I suspect that if a legion of Lucius fans were working for 
> years to get Lucius off the hook, they would have found an 
> equally "straightforward" reading that Lucius is DDM too. Probably 
> several incompatible readings, which would have nonetheless made 
> Lucius appear in a rather good light overall.
> 

Pippin:
LOL! You're telling me the DDM!Snape evidence is there because
I went looking for it? Hah! If I had a talent like that I'd be out 
prospecting for gold or looking for the next Google <g>

No, I may be misinterpreting the evidence, but I'm not the one
who put it there. JKR did that. 

If we knew for sure that Snape was evil, there would be, 
according to the author, no point in Book
Seven. So, as there is weighty evidence that Snape is a 
murderer, there must also be weighty evidence that he is not.

DDM!Snape and ESE!Snape are both Canon!Snape. If
you want to say that Snape is more ambiguous than Lucius
I'll certainly agree. But ambiguous is not the same as slippery.


> 
> > Pippin:
> > But if you insist that Snape did kill Dumbledore despite this,
> > then the most obvious reading is ESE!Snape, who never left
> > Voldemort's service at all and is thus has more traction than
> > DDM!Snape could ever have.
> > 
> 
> Neri:
> He saved Dumbledore in the beginning of the year and blasted him off 
> the tower in its end. 

Pippin:
The explanation for ESE!Snape is given in canon. Voldemort
wanted Draco to have a go first. The explanation for DDM!Snape 
is also in the book. Some poisons have no antidote. The explanation
that's not in the book is the OFH! Snape one. There is no canon
reason for Snape to have shifted his allegiance from Dumbledore
to Voldemort in the course of HBP, and no character even suggests
that he did so.  

Lucius, on the other hand, spent lavishly to ingratiate himself with
Fudge,  and though he purchased enough influence to get himself 
and his family a seat in the top box, he didn't use any of that 
influence to help Voldemort until he was ordered to. 

> 
> Neri:

> I mean, lets look at all of Snape's comrades on both sides, headed by 
> the "slippery" Lucius, and what has become of them:
<snip list>

Pippin:

Erm, haven't you forgotten that most of Snape's Order and Hogwarts
colleagues have survived, and flourished,  while the DE's who 
used to outnumber the Order twenty to one were reduced to a pitiful 
thirty or so at the Graveyard?

> 
> > Pippin:
> > In contrast, the canon  case for OFH!Snape
> > is terribly weakened by Spinner's End. There's just no
> > reason for OFH!Snape to take that vow, which is why
> > Bella is simply astounded when it happens.
> > 
> 
> Neri:
> Bella obviously isn't very familiar with Snape and his personal 
> motivations. OTOH Narcissa, who even knows where he lives, does not 
> look astounded at all when he takes the vow. She knew that he'll help 
> her despite the Dark Lord orders, she knew how to go about asking 
> him, and she proved correct. Do you think Narcissa knows that Snape 
> is DDM? If not, then it appears she knows of other motivations Snape 
> has to take the vow.

Pippin:
Right, Narcissa shows up cool, calm and collected, knowing exactly
what she wants. The 'drowned' imagery has nothing to do with her
grasping at straws, and all her wild-eyed pleadings are an act.

Hardly. She shows up not even sure that Snape is in on the plan,
then she asks him to talk Voldemort out of it, then she asks him 
to do the task instead, and when he refuses, she falls to the floor,
at Snape's feet, screaming and clutching at her hair. 

That would be the moment for Snape to  give in, if what he
wanted was to see her on her knees before him. But he 
doesn't. He picks her up and steers her to the couch. *Then*
he allows that he might possibly be able to help Draco.

The one clear idea she seems to have in her head is that if
Voldemort won't relent then  in order to save Draco someone 
else is going to have to do the task.

 But it's a good question --
what *does* Narcissa think she is going to get out of Snape
by asking him to take the vow? I think initially she wants to make
sure he means it when he says he'll help Draco. Once he's agreed
to do that, she decides she'd better make sure he'll go as far
as she needs him to. She doesn't care why he's going to do it at all. 
Does the drowning woman care why she's being rescued? 
No, she just wants to make sure it's a real rope, not a mirage.
 

Pippin