JKR and the boys

[amiabledorsai]

No: HPFGUIDX 161507

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > First of all, Hermione doesn't have any female friends. Ginny
> > comes the closest (and I'll guess that Hermione would call
> > Ginny her best girlfriend) but Ginny is a very far second to
> > Ron and Harry. Ginny might tell Hermione everything.
> > Hermione does not return the favor.

> >>Amiable Dorsai:
> Other than to trust her with the single juiciest bit of gossip in
> all of Gryffindor Tower (The identity of Victor Krum's date to 
> the Yule ball). This from a witch who is so good at keeping 
> secrets that her right hand has yet to be informed that she 
> possesses a left hand, much less what it's doing.

Betsy Hp:
>Ah, but that's juicy gossip as per Hermione's roommates, the
>giggling girls. 

Amiable Dorsai:
Whom she did not tell.

She did tell Ginny.

Betsy Hp:
>It's not the sort of thing Hermione cares about,
>and the only reason she's keeping quiet about it is to annoy Ron.
>For Hermione, it's not a big secret. (It's a big secret for Ron,
>but he's more into that sort of thing.) But when it comes to
>Hermione's big secrets, Ginny doesn't know.

Amiable Dorsai:
You keep writing things like that.  Why do you think so?  Ginny seems
to be tolerably well-informed about Hermione's snogging partners, for
example.  What big secrets (of her own) has Hermione kept from Ginny?

Betsy Hp:
 >Neither do Ron or Harry for that matter. Not until Hermione wants
> them to know.  Hermione is actually pretty self-sufficient. I 
> get the sense that she's used to, or well able to handle, being by 
> herself.

Amiable Dorsai:
Able to handle being alone?  I dunno, the little girl who ran into
that loo was desperate to have friends.  She found two that night. 
The evidence seems to be that she's found a third.

Is it a Cho-Marietta kind of friendship?  Obviously not--Hermione's no
Cho, Ginny's no Marietta--but surely you're not going to tell me that
that's the only kind of close friendship women can have; if you did, I
wouldn't believe you.  My wife, my sisters, female friends of mine,
all seem to have many varieties of close friendships.  Ginny and
Hermione's, as I see it, would fit right in.

> >>Amiable Dorsai:
> The idea that Ginny is not a close friend of Hermione is
> insupportable, even if she doesn't tell Ginny other people's
> secrets; she doesn't tell anybody else other people's secret's
> either.

>Betsy Hp:
> Yes, but my point was that Hermione doesn't share *her* secrets 
> with Ginny. Not any big ones, anyway.

Amiable Dorsai:
There you go again...  Point that canon at me Betsy, I can take it.

>Betsy Hp:
> And I'm not even saying
> that Ginny isn't a friend to Hermione. I'm talking about her 
> status, and Ginny definitely comes *after* Ron and Harry.

Amiable Dorsai:
Granted, that her Lost Boys rank pretty high on Wend... erm,
Hermione's priority list, how is it that her friendship with Ginny is
so insignificant that you can write, as you did, that "First of all,
Hermione doesn't have ANY female friends."?  (emphasis mine) You uhm,
weasleyed that a bit in your next sentence but still, it seems rather
broad.

Betsy Hp: 
>Which is fine. But it makes it hard to say that the relationship
>between Ginny and Hermione is a good example of two close
>girlfriends. Neither of the two seem to find having a close
>girlfriend all that important.

Amiable Dorsai:
Unless, of course, I'm right, and Hermione and Ginny have as close a
friendship as the facts seem to indicate.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > As to her sorting out Harry's love life: I think she picked up
> > all of her information on Cho either in the girls' restroom
> > (*prime* source of that sort of gossip) or may have quizzed
> > Lavender and Parvati. But I'm quite sure Hermione did not
> > figure out all of Cho's issues on her own.

> >>Amiable Dorsai:
> Because *Hermione Granger* the smartest witch of her generation,
> isn't going to have any contacts in *Ravenclaw*, nor  any insight
> into the rest of the "smart crowd". Betsy, think that through.

Betsy Hp:
>Exactly. As the beginnings of the DA club show us. It might 
>seem logical that the smart chick hangs with the smart kids. But 
>as per the books, she doesn't. She hangs with Ron and Harry.

Amiable Dorsai:
I didn't say she had buddies in Ravenclaw, I said she had contacts,
which, as you point out, her recruitment of the DA clearly shows.  

A hypercompetitive student like Hermione is going to check out and
keep tabs on the competition.  Been there, done that, had it done to
me--to and by both sexes.
 
Betsy Hp:
>And honestly, since the Gryffindors don't have a single class with
>the Ravenclaws (IIRC), it's not too hard to imagine that Hermione
>knows very little about individuals within Ravenclaw house.

Amiable Dorsai:
If Runes and Arithmancy aren't top heavy with Ravenclaws, I'll eat
Buckbeak.  

Without ketchup.

And then, of course, there's the Prefect network.  You suggested that
Hermione overheard gossip about Cho in the girl's room.  Quite
plausible, but I'd suggest it was the Prefects Bathroom where the real
dirt got dished. Anything Lavender and Parvati had would be second
hand, at best.

Go check the DA list, all six non-Slytherin prefects from Hermione's
year were in the DA.  Hermione can, and does, network.

Betsy Hp:
>And really, (thinking things through as you've urged me to do,
>Amiable Dorsai, <g>) how on earth would Hermione, with her lack of
>interest in quidditch, have any sort of special understanding about
> Cho's flying record? Are we supposed to assume Hermione has been
>watching the Ravenclaw games avidly over the years and recognizes
>that Cho isn't flying up to her usual game and is so very
>interested she can't rest until she figures out why?

Amiable Dorsai:
Nope, I'm asking you to assume that Cho became a Person of Special
Interest to Hermione as soon as one of Hermione's boys asked her out
to the Yule Ball, especially as that made Cho a rival to her other
good friend, Ginny (more on that in a bit). As to how Hermione knew
that Cho wasn't flying up to her usual standard, well, she had at
least two Weasleys to tell her that--one of whom probably considered
Cho a Person of Even More Special Interest than Hermione did.

If you don't believe that Hermione made a special study of Cho,
consider for a moment that Hermione expected Cho to kiss Harry well
before the fact.

Betsy Hp:
>Hmm, was Hermione rooting for H/G earlier than Ron? It 
>wouldn't surprise me if Ginny *told* Hermione that she was hoping
>Harry asked her to the Yule Ball. But that just signals awareness
>of a crush.  Something Ron cottoned onto as early as 
>CoS (possibly even PS/SS).

Amiable Dorsai:
If mere awareness of the crush qualifies, then you win, Ron knew Ginny
was infatuated with The Boy Who Lived before Hermione knew there was a
Ginny.

If we're talking active collaboration, then I'm going to claim the
palm.  As Ginny allowed Michael Corner to pick her up at the Yule
Ball, it seems to me that Hermione started to give Ginny advice about
Harry as early as the opening of "Goblet", if not before.

Go back and read the description of the Gryffindor Common room's
occupants during Harry and Ginny's first kiss in HBP--Dean crushed his
glass, Ron was "wearing an expression appropriate to having been
clubbed over the head" but Hermione... Hermione "was beaming".

She loves it when a plan comes together.  More importantly, I'd
suggest, she loves it when two of her best friends finally come
together.  

Betsy Hp:
>And Hermione's attitude during GoF seemed much more "goodness this 
>boy and girl thing is soo silly" than "this is what
> hopes and dreams are made of!<3!). 

Amiable Dorsai:
You're going to have to fire some more canon at me to get me to accept
that--what I recall is a Hermione who took the whole thing very
seriously indeed, to the point where she dolled herself up for the
first time we ever see, applying herself so assiduously to the task
that her two best male friends took a while to recognize her.

Amiable Dorsai