Draco and Dumbledore WAS: Re: Dumbledore Does Lie - Sort Of

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 159769

 
> Alla:
> 
> As I said, we seem to be taking a different view of what protective
> custody or protection is, if you consider it the same as prison or
> caged bed , then sure I am with you, but if this is the same as what
> Dumbledore offers at the Tower, as in taking Draco and his sorry
> excuse for the family to safe place, then **NO**, I do not consider
> Dumbledore doing it even against Draco's wishes to be sufficient
> analogy for the denial of due process.

Pippin:
There's a famous quote, "Stone walls do not a prison make, nor
iron bars a cage." To be confined under house arrest,
as Sirius shows us, can be miserable even if  one is there
of one's own choosing.  But Draco would be more equivalent to
Kreacher in his plight, and like Kreacher would be plotting 
revenge or escape every moment. Let's not forget that both the 
attacks were launched from outside Hogwarts. Removing
Draco from Hogwarts wouldn't protect the students in the 
slightest.

If Draco would have accepted protection, fine. But he wouldn't
take it from Snape, whom he had far more reason to think might
help him, so why would he take it from Dumbledore? And if he
refused, and Voldemort learned of it, Voldemort would kill
him. Would be assassin or not, Draco had done nothing for
which he deserved to be marked for death.  Even successful 
mass murderers only got life in Azkaban.

There's another problem. Dumbledore seems to have guessed
that Draco's accomplice in Hogsmeade was under the Imperius.
That would mean that someone had put the accomplice  under 
the Imperius curse, made sure it stayed in effect, and done it 
so well that neither Dumbledore in his frequent visits to 
Hogsmeade nor the aurors stationed in the village could detect it. 
Even if that person was not actually a member of the Order, it 
had to be someone they trusted and a powerful wizard or witch. 
Quite apart from Voldemort's orders, that person would surely 
silence Draco if it seemed his or her secret was about to be 
discovered.


Alla:
> When I said a doubtful luxury as to Sirius **choosing** to be in 
> that house, I meant that this was not a choice that Sirius really 
> wanted to make,IMO. I think that was shown rather clearly in OOP.

Pippin:
You mean if Sirius choses to do what Dumbledore thinks is right
because he thinks that Dumbledore's judgement is better than his, 
he's not acting of his own free will? How do you work that out?

In any case, Sirius said he came back to Britain because Harry needed 
him. That meant he had  to give up  a life of  travel and adventure, 
something parenting often requires us to do. Tough.


Alla:
> The funny thing is that IMO Dumbledore sure demonstrated that he 
> absolutely **can** make people's choices for them. Harry is the best 
> example of course,

Pippin:
The situations are not comparable. 

Draco's mother was not dead or in Azkaban. Dumbledore is not
in loco parentis outside Hogwarts,  nor was she likely to surrender 
her authority  as Sirius gave his to Dumbledore.  In any case,
Draco on the tower has passed his 17th birthday and is no longer
a child by WW standards.

Anyway, I  don't recall Harry ever asking Dumbledore to let him live
elsewhere.  Unlike you, he seems to trust Dumbledore on that,
wisely or not we shall see.

As for me, I have to say for Dumbledore what Gandalf said when
he was challenged, "You may ask what is the use of my
deeds when they are proved useless." 

Magpie:
I guess that's the thing I don't quite see--why would Draco's throwing
Trelawney out be so important?

Pippin:
Draco denied to Snape that he had anything to do with the attacks.
As long as he was denying it, it would have been useless to offer
him protection. I do not believe Dumbledore was willing to
take anyone into custody lacking evidence that they'd committed 
a crime. (Of course Dumbledore being sure it was him is not 
evidence.) 

But the attack on Trelawney was evidence, a crime in itself (yes,
it is assault. Draco has no business to lay hands on her, nor
to forcibly remove her from a room where she has as much right 
to be as he does.) Even if Draco was not willing to answer any
questions about what he'd been doing, he could still have been
arrested, with due process. In Azkaban he'd be safe from
Voldemort. 

BTW, I don't think the DE's were waiting in the RoR until Dumbledore
left the castle. I can't imagine anyone, even DE's, willingly being
confined for an indefinite period, possibly days or even weeks,
with a hungry Greyback for company. <g>

Pippin