witches of the world (was: Lavender vs Hermione)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 160410


> Amiable Dorsai:
> So, let me see if I understand:  Hermione was wrong, wrong, wrong to
> do what she did to try to find and stop the person who was attempting
> to murder (as in kill) *people like her*, but Marietta's betrayal of
> 20-odd students--including her best friend—to a torturer is really no
> big deal?
> 
> Amiable "but puzzled" Dorsai

Magpie:
No, this sounds like a false dilemma, but maybe that's the wrong term. 
First it assumes that one having a problem with Hermione's actions 
means one can't also have problems with Marietta's actions, so 
changes "I think Hermione did wrong" to "I don't think Marietta did 
wrong."  Also one's only choices aren't only Marietta betraying a 
secret club formed in adversity to someone who might expel them being 
no big deal or Hermione being forbidden to do anything to try to stop 
a snake that wants to eat her. Both option A and B are unacceptable. 

Marietta's betrayal being a bad thing does not automatically make 
anything Hermione did beyond reproach. Having a problem with 
Hermione's behavior does not give Marietta a free pass on what she 
did.  The basilisk going after Muggleborns doesn't give Hermione a 
blank check to do whatever she wants because she's Muggleborn.  Having 
a problem with one thing Hermione does in response to the basilisk 
doesn't mean doing anything in response to the basilisk is off limits.

Tesha:
She does this for Harry - she does this for the school - she
does this because she's a child and has no adult to go to for help.
She does this because she's a know-it-all - who's not afraid to face a
problem head on, and she always accepts the consequences of her 
actions....She's very much like my first child - I know this 
character. And as much as she often does the wrong thing, she does it 
with an open heart. She is a good person.

Magpie:
But what's the difference in the way we judge the actions of good 
people?  When good people do wrong, is it wrong or is it justified and 
rationalized because they're good so it doesn't count?  Something 
tells me if Mrs. Crabbe came in for a meeting with Dr. Granger over 
the Polyjuicing incident she wouldn't be too emotionally moved by 
speeches about how Hermione slipped her son a mickey with an open 
heart.  (And there are times she's a bit too ruthless for me to think 
her heart's a good guide.) Hermione sometimes accepts the consequences 
of her actions, but I don't know that she always has to face realistic 
ones.  Would you support Hermione's actions if it were your daughter 
she was acting against?  Or yourself?  And btw, Hermione actually did 
have adults she could go to for help in CoS iirc.

I accept what she did and don't consider the character evil for doing 
it. But just as it may feel that is what some of us are doing from 
this side it sometimes feels like you can only judge Hermione's 
actions in a positive way.

Tesha:
no, I'm not saying it's a good thing to break the law, but this gave
JKR an opportunity for the kids to be in the girls bathroom - to get
to know Myrtle - to set up the rest of the action that happens there.
and remember their ages! 

Magpie:
But...isn't that what you're saying, that it was a fine thing?  You 
seemed to be disagreeing she'd even done the things I'd said she'd 
done. Because I don't think anybody is saying this was bad for the 
story. I think I acknowledged it was good for the plot and a fun spy 
caper. It is a great way for the kids to meet Myrtle as well. But I 
can see that without giving Hermione a gold star for ethics--and I 
think plenty of kids could handle that. I've no doubt if some other 
student had done this for their own reasons Hermione herself would be 
horrified--say, if someone had done exactly the same thing to the Trio 
because they suspected Harry of being the Heir. It seemed to me that 
that was what was being argued, that there was nothing wrong with 
Hermione's actions. I don't think it would be a bad thing for Hermione 
to get a wake-up call about this sort of thing either.

Dantzel:
What they were doing was dangerous but necessary in my opinion, and 
pretty much any secret society has *some* way to keep track of its 
members, right?

Magpie:
Actually, Hermione's hex didn't much keep track of the members. It 
just punished anyone who'd betrayed them after the fact. That's its 
main strength.

Dantzel:
I think Hermione's punishment (ugly face) is far less harsh than
Voldemort's (death).

Magpie:
She is a bit better than the murderous sociopath advocating genocide. 

Dantzel:
She is a little bossy,yes, and she may be ruthless (I noticed noone 
berated her for blackmailing *poor* Rita Skeeter), 

Magpie:
Actually she has been called on blackmailing Rita Skeeter in the past--
it's a step further down the same road, and part of the whole "I'm not 
comfortable with her assuming that much power..." angle.

Dantzel:
but she does what she thinks is best, and she is much better at 
following the rules than most of the school is 

Magpie:
Well, she's good at telling others to follow the rules. Doing what she 
thinks is best usually takes precedence. I wouldn't be surprised if 
there were other students who have followed the rules more than 
Hermione during their time at Hogwarts. Not that following the rules 
in itself is always a good thing.

Dantzel:
(not to mention much more sensitive to people's feelings
than Ron or Harry).

Magpie:
Of course, being sensitive to others' feelings doesn't always 
translate into respecting them. 

-m, who likes Hermione and doesn't like characters to be too perfect, 
but has been in fandom long enough to know that sometimes "not 
perfect" means "they're flawed in the good way."