What Came First: Task or Cabinet? - The Plan v1 & v2/Re: Draco's task (For M

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 157791



Magpie:
We don't see that scene--just as we don't see Ginny getting 
possessed. We 
see Draco's mother giving the information that Draco has been given a 
task 
by Voldemort. And people react to that, don't bring up any of the 
problems 
with it, act in response to it...and nothing else is ever mentioned 
in the 
book. There's no need for another explanation, none is offered. You 
put 
the two things together and it makes for a story. Why scratch your 
head and 
wonder why this is happening when the story starts with a scene 
saying, 
"This is what is happening and why--what are we going to do about 
it?" If 
somebody else brought up the possibility that Narcissa didn't have 
her facts 
right--somebody in canon--I'd agree with you.

Snow:

Well in a manner we do have someone in canon that does give us a clue 
into how Voldemort acts and how Narcissa will act, which can affect 
her facts, and that would be Dumbledore. OOP pg. 838

" – In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who 
love to act."

Does Narcissa love Draco? Well she shows that she loved him enough to 
confide in Snape when she was specifically told not to tell anyone. 
Does Voldemort know how fools who love will act? Well Dumbledore 
certainly believes so.  Herein lies the trap. 

So the question of whether Narcissa has her facts straight would 
depend largely on what Voldemort expected Narcissa to do when she 
learned of the plan involving her precious. 

It isn't so much whether we can trust her, it's more a question of if 
we can trust what had been told to her by the master manipulator. 
What was she told that Voldemort expected her to take to Snape, 
because I really do suspect from Dumbledore's statement that 
Voldemort did expect this loving mother to act in a foolish way, why 
else would he have included her as one who was entrusted with the 
plan that involved her only son? Oh yeah, to use her. 

Narcissa believes Voldemort's motives are because of her husband that 
Draco has now been burdened with this mission, what else would she 
believe; he's just a kid? 

Snape however puts two and two together pretty quickly and realizes 
that it is Snape himself that Voldemort has targeted when he says 
that he intends me to do it in the end, I think. 

So you see it was never about Draco at all, Draco was a bonus prize. 
Do you think that Narcissa would even hesitate to think that 
Voldemort might be using her and the boy to get an even bigger fish? 

Narcissa didn't even walk, she ran to see Snape, and don't you think 
that Voldemort knew that she was going to do that? Narcissa enters 
Snape's house with not only her heart on her sleeve (an occlumency no 
no) but plenty of information for Snape to gather as he stares into 
those tear-filled eyes.  

In the end, can we simply assume what the plan was when it has not 
been fleshed out in detail? We know the end result but can we be 100% 
certain what the plan Narcissa speaks of was or even if it was the 
same plan Voldemort told Draco for that matter? Even if the boy was 
ordered from the beginning to find a way to kill Dumbledore, can we 
be certain that the boy knew from the beginning that if he didn't do 
it himself he would be killed? 

If Draco knew all along that he and his family were in danger of 
being killed if he did not succeed, why wouldn't Draco have allowed 
Snape to help; why were the cabinets so necessary; why wasn't Draco 
more engrossed with his two failed attempts on Dumbledore's life? 

It certainly raises a lot of questions if Draco knew from the start 
that he had to kill Dumbledore or be killed. Instead what we saw was 
a-cocky-little-son-of-a-Lucius who wanted all the glory for himself 
but wait
this wasn't glory about killing Dumbledore no, no, this was 
glory for letting the deatheaters into the castle by means of his 
cabinets. 

If Draco was being subjected to a life and death situation (his life) 
and yet his primary concern was for those damn cabinets, wouldn't you 
automatically question his priorities?

The boy is more concerned with the glory he feels he will receive 
over the cabinets, by rejecting Snape's help, than whether he lives 
to appreciate the glory; this does not make sense if we are to 
believe that the boy knew it was his life or Dumbledore's. There's 
something up with the whole "plan". 

Magpie:
In the context of that conversation, Steve is claiming that once 
Draco 
mentions the Cabinet and Voldemort uses that as the basis for his 
plan, he 
has no more disagreements about how the story plays out. Snow's 
theory has 
major disagremeents with Steve's theory, with Draco not even being 
given the 
task to kill DD into later in the year, and so Snape not vowing to 
kill DD 
in Spinner's End. Draco is therefore not almost killing Katie and Ron 
in an 
attempt to kill DD. Many theories not compatible with each other.

Snow:

To make a theory from what one may consider questionable dialog, one 
must be willing to admit defeat on parts that have been proven 
unacceptable along with those parts that can enhance a theory. 

The whole reason for theorizing is to have others input as to what 
could actually play out in the end without disrupting actual canon in 
doing so. So if you or others can point out that there is disputable 
canon, then as TBAY would say the ship is sunk. 

I am always open to rebuttal because it helps me to reconsider and 
take a different path to my conclusion, therefore my theories change 
accordingly. The basis of this topic, for me, is that there is open 
interpretation of canon, which makes me leery to readily accept the 
obvious about the plan. 

Now whether that means that the cabinets came first or not has been 
under such scrutiny, I must give further matter to the idea that it 
could defiantly be a true scenario of events that we have yet to 
realize on page as fact. 

This cabinet came first scenario could have repercussion, which you 
have already pointed out yourself, as to why or where this could 
alter the given scenario we are being spoon-fed. Alternate ideas then 
present themselves for equal scrutiny. They are like tangents that 
arise from the origin. They could be right or they may be wrong but 
that is what this forum has been for, the polite conflict of debate 
and rebuttal. 

If everyone simply agreed with everyone else I would dare say the 
forum would die out. I see it almost as a marriage where you have the 
males straightforward and less emotional way of thinking coming 
together with the female's overly emotional way of thinking. If you 
can join them in agreement you will find your answer. 


Cheers

Snow