Dumbledore's 'evidence' (Was Re: OoP clues?)

[abergoat]

No: HPFGUIDX 158196

Kemper wrote:
> I don't recall that Dumbledore gave 'evidence' to the Wizengamot
> that condemned Sirius.  I do recall that he gave 'evidence' that
> to pardon Snape. Will you site passages for me, so that I can look
> it up?  I would like to re-read those sections.

Abergoat responds:
Sure! Here it is. I don't know that he gave it to Wizengamot but to a
man of the law (which Dumbledore is) the word 'evidence' is laden with
meaning.

PoA, page 422, Bloomsbury paperback edition
"I myself gave evidence to the Ministry that Sirius had been the
Potter's Secret-Keeper."

Note the important words: evidence and 'had been'. Not 'was to be'.
Dumbledore's evidence was not about a 'plan' to use Sirius.

Kemper wrote:
> I don't think Peter had the wherewithall to frame Sirius.  I think
> Peter believed Voldemort would be successful.  The plan to frame
> Sirius occured only after Voldemort's failure.

Abergoat responds:
That is a valid point I hadn't thought of - but I think Peter is a
calculator. I think he always tries to have a foot in both boats if he
possibly can. And I confess I'm not sure Peter didn't use Imperius to
get Sirius and the Potters to switch to him. It would not have been
hard, the Potters WANTED to trust him. He was a friend. But Dumbledore
may have been suspicious about the change given he had been told James
wanted to use Sirius. We know Imperius was in wide use at the time
(fake Moody, GoF).

Kemper wrote:
> Snape wouldn't be able to find the Potter's unless Peter told him
> where they were... which I suppose would be easy for Snape to trick
> Peter into giving him that information.

Abergoat responds:
But we know from Dumbledore that Snape had 'rejoined' Dumbledore's
side by this time. I don't think Snape tricked Peter, I think
Dumbledore asked the Secret-Keeper (ployjuiced Peter) to GIVE the
secret to Snape since Snape was a spy on Voldemort and therefore had
the best chance of learning if Voldemort was looking for Sirius (the
supposed Secret-Keeper). Dumbledore may have suggested it for SIRIUS's
safety. By giving the secret to Snape there was no danger to the
Potters - the secret cannot be given to Voldemort by Snape. Dumbledore
would view it as a win/win situation. Dumbledore has someone in place
to 1) warn Sirius if Voldemort started looking for him; 2) warn the
Potters if Sirius was found.
 
Kemper asked:
> Can you give sitations again that list how Lily's words support it?  

Abergoat gives:

I snatched this off the web:
"Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!"
"Stand aside, you silly girl...stand aside, now..."

"Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead--"

"Not Harry! Please...have mercy...have mercy..."
A shrill voice was laughing, the woman was screaming, and Harry knew
no more.
-POA, pg. 134

"Not Harry! Not Harry! Please -- I'll do anything--"
"Stand aside -- stand aside, girl--"
-pg. 177 

Abergoat continues:
I'll grant you it can be read either way (how JKR-like). The first
line makes me think it came as a shock to Lily that Voldemort was
going to kill Harry. And the 'have mercy' is suggestive of someone
that thinks THEY are the one being punished and Harry is being killed
to punish them. She says nothing about the prophecy, why isn't she
trying to convince Voldemort it is meaningless? Or lying that her son
wasn't born at the end of July? Or saying that Trelawney was just a
destitute woman with a dramatic flair trying to get a job? I suspect
she says nothing because she didn't know about the prophecy,
Dumbledore didn't 'give it meaning' by telling her. Why?

Perhaps Snape convinced Dumbledore that Voldemort didn't care about
the prophecy and just thought they were the silly words of a woman
desperate for a job? That would certainly compound Snape's guilt...and
it is his greatest regret.

Who really thinks that Voldemort would share his true feelings on the
prophecy? Particularly with Snape?

Abergoat, just guessing the same as everyone else.