AK and guns- both unforgivable, and sometimes necessary!

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 167170

> Alla:
> 
> I do find it funny that we agree that there is something really bad 
> in AK itself, but do spread in such different directions from that 
> realisation.
> 
> Let me ask you a question. Strictly hypothetical by the way. I think 
> I know the answer from you arguing a ruse, fake AK for the most part 
> in the past, but want to be sure.
> <snip>.
> 
> If you would know for sure that it was a real AK ( please pretend as 
> I said), would it mean for you that Snape cannot be fully DD!M?
> 

Pippin:
I can't be sure. Maybe Carol is right and AK is morally neutral and 
a humane way of ending lives.  But if it is not, if the target cannot 
help but sense  the hatred of the caster,   then no, I don't think 
Snape can have been DDM and used the spell.  


Carol:
But I don't agree that an AK requires hatred to cast. 

Pippin:
If  AK were the most humane way of killing, then I would expect
Hagrid to have wanted that for Buckbeak, and for the unicorn, had
it been needful "ter put it out of its misery." But Macnair's axe is
evidently standard, and Hagrid goes hunting armed with a crossbow, 
not a wand.

Carol:
What cause did Fake!Moody have to hate the spider or Bellatrix to hate 
the fox or Wormtail to hate Cedric or LV to hate Frank Bryce or Bertha 
Jorkins? I don't think he even *hated* Lily Potter. She was just in his way.

Pippin:
"Always the innocent are the first victims" The victims of hatred
are seldom the ones who were its instigators.

That is what Dumbledore was trying to explain, IMO,  when he said 
that Sirius didn't hate Kreacher. 

Sure, Sirius hated. He felt angry and powerless, and took it out on the 
Elf.

But the Elf wasn't behind those feelings. If Kreacher hadn't
been there, Sirius would have found another target. In fact
he did -- with Kreacher  behaving more dociley in the wake of
his clandestine alliance with the Malfoys, Sirius picked a fight with 
Snape. 

Moreover, if hate grows out  of anger and powerlessness, then to 
kill for hatred's sake is a kind of madness. Surely killing is the 
supreme power and no one who has it  should feel the powerlessness
of hate. Harry finds his desire to kill Sirius strangely gone once he 
stands over him. Even Draco cannot feel hate once he has power.

But there are those, like Voldemort, whose feelings of powerlessness
are so engrained that they can never feel they have enough. Bella
does not have to hate the fox, particularly, though she thinks it
might be an auror and I'm sure she hates them. But she hates 
everything, always, all the time, because in her world love has no
reality and without it there is no safety or protection for the weak.

I think the fox felt it when that intensity of hatred was turned 
towards it. "The harsh cry startled the fox, now crouching almost
flat in the undergrowth. It leapt from its hiding place and up
the bank. There was a flash of green light, a yelp, and the fox
fell back to the ground, dead." Avada may be painless and humane,
but if so, what made the fox yelp? Not startlement -- it was
already running away. 

Pippin