Will the Real Severus Snape please step forward?

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 167682

> Magpie:

> Odd.:-) Because Snape is central to the struggle. He's not 
taking a backseat. He's agreeing to spy on the DEs at personal 
risk, and taking UVs that risk his own death. And confronting 
Quirrell and muttering counter-hexes and making up Potions 
riddles and going after Sirius.

Goddlefrood:

Our views differ on this, which is commendable, as I often state.

I suggest that Severus is taking no great risks in his spying and 
is not really supplying any information that would be unobtainable
through other sources. Harry's dreams for one. Dumbledore makes a
mistake, which he later admits, in not giving enough credence to
Harry in OotP. Severus has hoodwinked LV into believing that he 
never turned. This is something I find odd due to the statement 
made by Albus in the GoF Pensieve. In a fully packed Wizengamot 
DD declared that Snape had turned at great personal risk. The 
implication being that had LV known Snape had turned then Severus 
would now have been the late lamented.

The UV was to have been in a later edition, but I'll make my 
comments on it here ;). I have a simple explanation for the UV, 
one that is not yet contradicted by canon. Severus IMO did not 
know, despite his initial boast what Draco had been assigned to 
do by LV.

What is clear is that LV had no real expectation that Draco would
succeed. One of LV's little vendettas against the Malfoys for 
Lucius's failure in the MoM. As Dumbledore states Lucius is safe 
in Azkaban and despite the anomally that the Dementors have now 
left that institution, coupled with our lack of knowledge as to 
how it is currently being guarded, the conclusion drawn is that 
he's safe from a revenge attack, even from LV. Almost certainly 
we will have a visit to Azkaban in DH during the course of which 
these matters should become clearer, at least I hope so ;).

Basically what that then means is that Snape, in order to save 
his own skin, had to complete Draco's task. It does not show a 
great personal risk on his part, what it shows to me at least, is 
his recklessness and arrogance :)

The other examples brought in are also somewhat counterintuitive. 
The sadly deluded Professor Quirrell was one of the teachers 
assisting in protecting the Philosopher's Stone as well as Snape 
and his Portion's quiz. I put forward in the post from yesterday 
that Snape's actions vis a vis what he did to help Harry in PS 
are no more than his assuaging of his conscience for the first, 
and possibly only time in his life. 

Having said this I have not yet got to the meat og the theory, 
but it will be delivered soon enough ;). I have to keep an eye 
on the daily posting limit currently :), so will do this only 
after the rolling 24 hour period expires.

> Magpie:

> I think he did teach it, since Hermione has gotten so good at 
it after a while she's no longer doing any spells verbally. Ernie 
gives a thumbs up to one of his classes. How else do any of the 
teachers ever teach spells except to tell people to just do it, 
after all?

Goddlefrood:

I do not deny Snape was presentr in the classroom :|. He basically
said "get on with it", there would be ways of explaining how one 
can cast a spell without verbalising the incantation for the same. 
At least I would think so. Not dissimilar to how Muggle children 
are taught to read without moving their lips, for instance. 
Example and practice, fair enough, and if all else fails hold 
their lips shut ;). Learning by rote is how I see it, there does 
not appear to be a great deal of example being shown., "Here's 
how I do it, perhaps you may find these tips useful". Nothing 
much like that going on. 

The main reason I do not put a great deal of value on Severus's 
teaching ability (in respect of DADA and Occlumency) is that he 
surely could have done more. Ultimately I do not think his method 
was any better than the six-gilled shark's whereby she said read 
the instructions and thereby learn. Snape is similar IMO.

It is fair to say, as you go on to, that other concepts are 
introduced, without the benefit of seeing what went on in the 
lessons, other than the non-verbal ones, it is difficult to really 
denigrate Severus too much, but I like to do it anyway :). The 
Dementors repelling lesson may or may not assist some of the kids, 
but as many of them were taught the use of Patronuses by Harry in 
OotP, my opinion is that we may not find out, unless we see Snape 
himself, or possibly a Death Eater, using this alternate method of 
repulsion.

As to other teachers, I'll give you two small examples that 
spring to mind. First is Professor Flitwick in Charms in PS. He 
shows the students the correct wrist action and intonation for 
Wingardium Leviosa. IMO a good example to his class. Also Remus, 
in the Boggart lesson, first shows the class the method for 
foolishly ;) waving their wands while performing the Ridikulus 
spell before letting them loose on the Boggart. There are others 
too. Even Trelawney, actually, gives some practical instructions,
despite the fact that her class is in a different medium ;D


In:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167368

> colebiancardi here:

> please note, JKR nor the questioner, asked if Snape LOVED 
someone, but if Snape has ever been loved?  Big difference.  
And quite frankly, I think the one person that loved Snape was 
his mother.  No proof, of course.  But I just wanted to point 
out that the question was "Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?" 
not "Has Snape ever loved someone?"

Goddlefrood:

I have a confession here, the original spin I put on the love 
quotes was quite deliberate on my part. A gazillion Snape loved 
Lily theories have hung on one of them. They are, of course, all 
wrong. Snape did not love Lily. He has been loved by someone. 
This someone is also not Lily. Further on this should follow in 
the next installment. I did take note :). It has always surprised 
me how few people noticed this, glad you did.

Goddlefrood