Will the Real Severus Snape please step forward?/The Dursleys/James' Patronu

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 167700

Magpie:
> I don't think there's any doubt that "personal" means Snape. That's 
> what Snape is doing by pretending to be a DE when he's not. If he's 
> found out he will be killed.
<snip> 

Dana:
To risk being found out you have to actually do something that would 
risk being found out but we see Bella only accuses him from 
slithering in and out of action without putting his own life on the 
line for LV's cause, not that he is provided DD information that 
risked any of LV's operations.  

You can't have it both ways Snape not doing anything to keep his 
cover or Snape risking his cover by providing the necessary 
information. We see him do the former more then the latter and we see 
no Order activity that is contributed to information Snape has 
provided. And when he finally does it was almost to late and 
therefore it doesn't seem that it was actually his intention for the 
DEs to fail just his attempt to cover his own butt. JMHO

Magpie:
> But he did put his DE friends in danger. He sent the Order to the 
> MoM and got them arrested and attacked. There's no indication that 
> Dumbledore is ordering him to put DEs in danger as a matter of 
> course. 
<snip>

Dana:
But was it intentional. Why would DD have to need to order Snape to 
put the DEs in danger? That is his job as a spy to make sure the DEs 
and LV don't get their way. In war you do not sent a spy to have some 
tea parties with the enemy, you want him to provide you with 
information to help you win the war. And make sure you can move 
before the enemy does. 

Magpie:
> I'm not sure what you're definition of "real trouble" is. None of 
> the Order members have gone to any trouble to keep Snape safe 
> either. Snape doesn't have to personally worry about every Order 
> member. Snape has taken actions that contribute to the safety of 
> people on the good side. We don't know what information he's giving 
> them--why would you assume he's not giving them anything important? 
> Just because he's not keeping them "one step ahead" of LV (which 
> would not only make for a boring story, but would be unrealistic) 
> doesn't mean he's not pulling his own weight. LV, too, seems to be 
> okay with Snape not keeping him one step ahead of Dumbledore.
<Snip>

Dana:
I do not understand this at all. What is Snape purpose as a spy if he 
does not provide the Order with information to prevent stuff from 
happening? If the Order can move before LV is able to execute his 
plans, then automatically the people involved are less at risk from 
being killed then to have to fight DEs one on one. 

Snape job at Hogwarts that night was not only that of a spy but also 
the last Order Member to protect Harry and this alone means that 
Snape was responsible for keeping Harry at arms length. This also 
makes him responsible to direct the Orders actions and make decisions 
based on the knowledge he gained but Snape does nothing until Harry 
has gone missing for several hours. This is not just Harry going on 
some school trip, this is serious war business but Snape treats it 
like Harry is just facing another detention with Dolores. 

Maybe you are forgetting that Dolores had the power to expel Harry 
for breaking into her office, just because she wants some information 
out of Harry first does not mean she would not have removed him from 
the school grounds later. It is not Snape that prevents this from 
happening but Hermione. 
She wanted Harry out of Hogwarts the first time she caught him doing 
something against the law and now she caught him red handed. 

So the Order should have been preparing to get to Harry in case 
Dolores would try to get him out of Hogwarts and that is why them 
sitting there waiting at HQ makes no sense at all if they had 
information on current events. 
If Snape had informed the Order, LV was setting his plan into motion 
then Order Members could have been there to prevent the entire ordeal 
at the DoM and there would have been no need to fight anyone, now 
would there. No Harry no LV plan to work out. 
Also Snape getting the information from Harry that LV is setting his 
plan, to get Harry to the DoM, in motion should be enough to motivate 
Snape into action but it doesn't. 

Just because it would have made it boring, doesn't mean Snape actions 
therefore are the right one. JKR did not write Snape's actions to 
prevent the reader getting bored. She actually does not write Snape's 
actions at all but has DD relay his actions and I think putting so 
much effort in having DD explain Snape's actions of that night is for 
a purpose not just to have Harry believe Snape did everything because 
we see DD's lecture does not change Harry's mind one bit and it even 
makes him question DD trust in Snape more and more in HBP. 

And just because Snape says to Sirius he should stay behind does not 
mean he activly tried to keep the guy out of harms way. It was for 
Harry that Sirius let himself got locket up in GP in the first place 
not because he valued his own life so much he would not take risks. 
We see him want to do that on more then one occassion and we also 
hear  about Snape goading him one more then one occassion about being 
a coward for not putting his own life on the line. Still so ironic 
Bella does the same thing to Snape and he got caught in the web 
too ;) 

To be honest we do see LV get advantage from information that could 
have been provided by Snape, mainly there not being an Order Member 
left at Hogwarts besides Snape to protect Harry and creating the 
perfect moment for LV to make his move.  

Magpie:
> He hasn't kept his cover spotless--not on the DE side. The've 
> questioned the very inactivity and action for the other side you're 
> describing, only for Dumbledore. He has taken action plenty of 
times 
> in canon in situations that are, whether Harry likes it or not, on 
> Harry's side. Even when he could have done nothing.
<snip> 

Dana:
Yes, he has kept it spotless because Bella never accuses Snape from 
giving sensitive information to DD; she accuses him from not being a 
proud DE and openly fight for LV's cause. She also does not accuse 
him for messing up the DoM plan but accusing him from not being there 
to fight along side them. She even asks him if DD never suspects 
Snape, not that it seems he is more on DD's side then theirs. What 
she is accusing him of is not risking his own life while others have 
to be on the frontline, not that he is risking their position on that 
frontline. 

Snape could have done loots of things that night but he just didn't 
and he later makes excuses he couldn't have known.  
But it does not excuses him for not keeping an eye on Harry while in 
the company of Dolores because she too is a potential threat to Harry 
safety and he should have known everything that was going on included 
those 4 other kids getting away from the IS and going after Harry. He 
knows by his own experience that they will not hesitate to take out a 
teacher if they believe it is the right thing to do and that it would 
mean Harry would no longer be under Dolores control and it would make 
him able to attempt to get to the DoM. All the more reason to keep a 
close eye on Harry. 

But it is apparently not Snape business to keep Harry safe because it 
is was never Snape's job to keep people safe, right?
But according to many it is perfectly natural for Snape to do nothing 
that would risk his cover because he is such a good spy, yet is not 
able to spy on Dolores and he certainly is not spying on LV because 
DD never knew about LV having information that would make it able to 
lure Harry to the DoM or even that it was his plan to use Harry to 
get to the prophecy because he gets the information about the former 
from Kreacher and he never mentions he thought about LV using Harry 
this way, he was worried LV would try and posses Harry or even to use 
Harry to spy on DD but never is it mentioned that Snape gave 
information about LV's true plan while LV himself mentions that 
*months* of careful planning has gone to waste, while he shows up at 
the DoM himself.   

I never implied Snape is LV's man but is actions do not risk, him 
being found out as DDM either. His actions reflect his own attempt to 
keep himself on both side of the fence and not do anything that would 
risk this position at least not before HBP. 

Dana