Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 168090

> wynnleaf
> As I've tried to point out, I don't necessarily think the idea of
> Evil!Lupin fits with what we know.  After all, according to JKR,
> Lupin's big weakness is in allowing his friends too much latitude,
> which just doesn't seem to go along with "cares so little about his
> friends that he intentionally betrays them to be killed."
> 
> On the other hand, this argument that JKR likes Lupin, and therefore
> she can't possibly use him to betray Harry or the Order has *already*
> been proved wrong.  JKR has *already* had Lupin, in POA, betray
> Dumbledore's trust for many months in a way that risked the lives of
> all the school children and in particular Harry.  So we know for
> certain that JKR can and has made Lupin irresponsible and for purely
> his own benefit, risk lives and betray Dumbledore.  The notion that
> her "liking" Lupin will somehow keep her from having him do this 
again
> makes no sense.
> 
> As I said, JKR liking Lupin, or thinking he's a good teacher does
> *not* equate to "he's responsible and trustworthy."  JKR has already
> *proven* that by making him irresponsible and untrustworthy in POA.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Sorry, but Lupin betraying Dumbledore's trust in PoA, even if Lupin 
says so, is an interpretation not a fact IMO.

I mean, Lupin was putting school at risk ? How? Is there a canon that 
had Dumbledore known that Sirius was an animagi, he would have been 
caught that very moment? Is there a moment where anything hinders on 
that piece of information?

And of course there is a fact that Lupin really was not putting anyone 
at risk by not revealing that information about animagi. Maybe he was 
really thinking deep down that Sirius was innocent, who knows. After 
all he believed in Sirius innocent the moment he saw Peter on the map.

So, no, I do not think that JKR already made Lupin betray Dumbledore's 
trust in PoA, despite him saying so. I think Lupin gives himself here 
way more credit than he should, IMO of course.

That is why the fact that JKR likes him and wants him to teach her 
daughter is a very strong point in favor of Lupin not being evil.


> Nikkalmati
>  
> Yes, Lupin knew exactly what he was doing to Snape and that it would 
be all  
> over school in a couple of hours.  Very unprofessional of him.  
There  were 
> other ways to help Neville, but, of course, Alla thinks Snape 
deserves it,  so 
> it is no problem for her.  
<SNIP>

Alla:

Of course I think he deserved it, but it is as you said **no problem* 
for me first and foremost because I think it helped Neville, even if 
short term. And that is what I think teacher should be concerned with -
 helping student, not sparing colleague, who just publicly humiliated 
that student.


Mike:
<SNIP>
> Lupin did not pick Neville's form (Snape), but he did come up with a 
> way to make that form become comical. Is there another way to do it 
> (make Snape!Boggart comical) without it seeming to humiliate the 
real 
> Snape? Try to think of one yourself, see if anything fits the bill 
> and works for the story. I submit that making Snape!Boggart comical 
> in any way is going to be demeaning to the real Snape. And I don't 
> buy that once Neville announced that Snape frightens him most, and 
> all the other kids laugh, that Lupin should say, "Sorry Neville, 
> we'll have to work on yours in private. Next!" What a cruel way that 
> would be to treat Neville, all because his potions teacher is a 
> scary, mean bastard that treats him like s**t.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Okay, I could not have put it any better. Thank you :)



Pippin:
> If JKR is okay with Lupin teaching her daughter even though
> he needs someone to prepare wolfsbane potion to keep him
> safe one day of the month, why shouldn't she be okay with
> him needing a certain amount of social support in order
> to keep him safe on all the other days?  
> 
> And why wouldn't she want to write about what would happen
> to him if he didn't get it?
><SNIP>

Alla:

Pippin, sorry but that does not answer my question. Do you think JKR 
would want a killer, even a fictional one to teach her daughter? I 
know it would never enter my mind to imagine such situation that 
anybody of the evil characters I read about would teach my kid. Do you 
think JKR would enjoy imagining such situation?


> wynnleaf
> First, we don't know that Lupin had "a great deal more than Snape" 
> to overcome, because we really don't know enough about either.  
<SNIP>


Alla:

Well, we know that if Dumbledore did not become the headmaster for 
example, Lupin would not be able to come to Hogwarts, no? I do not 
think that we know that Snape faced a threat of not coming to Hogwarts 
ever. Of course we still can learn about it, but so far it seems to me 
that this card was stuck up against Remus so much more than against 
Snape. 

Wynnleaf:
> And which is worse?  Willingness to endanger the lives of hundreds 
> of children just so you can keep the goodwill of the headmaster?  Or 
> willingness to be sarcastic and insulting?  Neither are very 
> admirable.  Snape injured the feelings of some of his students, but 
> even Neville didn't seem permenantly hurt by it.  Lupin could have 
> gotten his students killed, and then -- well, they wouldn't be hurt, 
> they'd just be dead.

Alla:

I am sorry when did Lupin **willingly** endangered the lives of 
hundreds of children? When he forgot about the potion? 

> wynnleaf
> I am very hopeful that JKR will ultimately show us that trying to 
> judge someone's loyalties by how nice they are isn't always the best 
> way.
>

Alla:

And I think that this would be the cliche in its own right. The 
backwards cliche so to speak. IMO of course.


Alla