[HPforGrownups] Re: Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168102

> Alla:
>
> Sorry, but Lupin betraying Dumbledore's trust in PoA, even if Lupin
> says so, is an interpretation not a fact IMO.
>
> I mean, Lupin was putting school at risk ? How? Is there a canon that
> had Dumbledore known that Sirius was an animagi, he would have been
> caught that very moment? Is there a moment where anything hinders on
> that piece of information?

Magpie:
In this case I'm going to have to say I think it's as close as something can 
be to canon, interpretation or not. If Sirius is thought to be attacking the 
school the information Remus is concealing is very important--it's the 
single most important piece of information we have. We can't know if 
Dumbledore would have caught Sirius immediately, no, but it's no stretch to 
say that things do hinge on those pieces of information. How could it not be 
important that Sirius might sometimes be a big black dog instead of a man? 
(Perhaps Harry might have wondered why Sirius didn't kill him that first 
time they saw each other.)

In the end it was, of course, good that Remus didn't tell because Sirius 
being a dog is what got him out of Azkaban and kept him hidden all that 
time. But given the information he knew then, especially after Sirius snuck 
into the dorm once, I don't see how it can be considered anything but 
betraying Dumbledore's trust by claiming he wants Harry protected. All the 
teachers are expected to be doing all they can to keep Sirius out of the 
school and catch him, and Lupin is concealing Sirius' main weapon.

After all, wouldn't things have been different in PoA if everyone knew Peter 
was the bad guy and was a rat? That's the form in which Sirius recognizes 
him in the picture and it's how Peter is able to escape to begin with. Now 
that we know what we know, we know Remus wasn't really putting anyone at 
risk by not telling about Sirius being an Animagus, but based on what he 
knew at the time, I think he considered himself absolutely putting them at 
risk by not telling. Even if he hoped deep down Sirius was innocent, he'd 
still be working against the efforts of Dumbledore by helping Sirius stay 
free and get around the school. But of course he never claims to have 
thought he was innocent. It seemed more like, just like in the Pensieve, he 
hoped the right thing would happen without him having to stick his neck out 
for it.

Alla:
> So, no, I do not think that JKR already made Lupin betray Dumbledore's
> trust in PoA, despite him saying so. I think Lupin gives himself here
> way more credit than he should, IMO of course.
>
> That is why the fact that JKR likes him and wants him to teach her
> daughter is a very strong point in favor of Lupin not being evil.

Magpie:
She does say she'd want him to teach her daughter, but she also says his 
flaw comes down to wanting to be liked, doesn't she? Seems to me she's 
validated Lupin's own views about what he did in PoA. Also, Lupin gives his 
reasons for what he did, and they're not about thinking Sirius was innocent 
but about not wanting to talk about his own past. (At that point there was 
really no one else for Lupin to protect with his information--Peter was dead 
and Sirius was a murderer and a traitor.) If he thought Sirius was innocent 
I'd think he'd be doing something more to help him prove it.

> Alla:
>
> I am sorry when did Lupin **willingly** endangered the lives of
> hundreds of children? When he forgot about the potion?

Magpie:
I think when he forgot about the Potion he endangered them through 
carelessness and not through willingness. In PoA, I assume, is where he's 
doing it willingly by covering up what he knows about how Sirius could be 
sneaking into the school--thinking that Sirius is the bad guy there.

I might mention that I love that Lupin does this, and I like him doing it 
for himself. (I tend to add something to his not wanting Dumbledore to think 
badly of him, myself. It's not canonical, but I like to imagine Lupin as 
very protective of that time in his life and the friends he had.) But I do 
still think he's obviously doing the wrong thing and knows it.

It's one of the things that's so cool about Lupin as a character, imo. He 
genuinely is kind and nice and a good teacher JKR can have him blatantly do 
something majorly bad and still have it be in character. Imagine how you'd 
think out this plot? You have the DADA teacher who's an old friend of the 
guy who's supposed to be a murderer who's out to murder the hero. You need 
him to conceal important inforamation about catching him. So you give him 
personal reasons for wanting to do it for his own sake. I wonder how many 
writers would have also made him ultmately a good guy, especially if the 
writer worshipped courage!

-m