Ungrateful Werewolf/ Appeal of the story to the reader

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 175618

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, juli17 at ... wrote:
<SNIP of the whole post>
> Finally, I do think the Prank was worse than the Dark curses. At 
least in  so
> far as the information we actually have. Again, I'm assuming the 
Dark  curses
> didn't cause serious permanent damage or death, or we would have 
heard  of
> students being expelled for using them. <SNIP>

Alla:

leaving aside the ambiguousness of the Dark Magic definition in 
Potterverse, I was convinced that the horror with which Lily spoke 
about them doing something to her friend meant that some sort of 
permanent damage was done.

And if permanent damage was done to the girl, I would consider it to 
be worse - this particular incident, not Dark curses in general, 
which I agree ambiguous.

JMO.


Nita:
<BIG SNIP> 
> Well, thanks for that. I hope JKR really didn't intend any 
gloating there.


Alla:

I do not know whether she intended or not, but for me satisfaction 
came later when I realised how fitting Snape's death was ( IMO).

I am just saying that I did not feel like gloating when I read the 
scene.

Nita: 
>> Wow, I've never even considered the possibility of watching horror
> movies for the sake of gloating... That's an interesting idea. I 
don't
> watch them either, but I've always thought that people watch them 
to
> a) get scared, b) laugh at the plot, c) yell at the protagonists 
not
> to do whatever they're going to do.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Not for the sake of gloating per se, but basically for what va32h 
said ( I guess I should add action movies here - some of them) - to 
imagine doing to mean people what you cannot do in RL.

I do not think I do that when I read about Potterverse.


 
Alla: 
> <snip mention of "A Few Good Men">
> > Just as Voldemort does not get it or does not want to get what 
Harry 
> > is telling him. IMO.
> 
Nita: 
> Well, I don't know. We've practically seen Voldie grow up. We've
> concluded that he's probably a sociopath (i.e., not right in the 
head,
> incapable of empathy or remorse). We've been told by DD to pity 
him.
> And then we should enjoy taunting him, that emotionally stunted
> wretch? It didn't work for me :/


Alla:

I  enjoyed watching him getting his just deserts and how Harry gets 
there. It definitely worked for me. As I said, my point is that I do 
not think that enjoying reading about villains being punished 
appeals to my inner meanness, that's all.


 
Nita:

> I suppose you read it as a different kind of story. As houyhnhnm 
said,
> one is free to pick and choose in this series :)


Alla:

Different from what? 


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175616

Alla:

What Zara said ;) ( in non-Snape parts :)


> Then Alla:
> > 
> > That's the thing though. NOT all readers would consider those 
> moments 
> > mean. Some will consider them **just** and to me it is a huge 
> > difference, you know?
> 
> va32h:
> 
> I think the huge difference is what side of the conflict you 
happen 
> to be on. If you are Draco's allies, then yes, turning him into a 
> slug (or a ferret, or punching him in the nose) is mean.
> 
> I doubt Umbridge has any fans in the HP universe or in the reader 
> universe, but if she did, I'm sure they would consider throwing 
her 
> into a nest of centaurs and then triggering her PTSD by mimicking 
> hoofbeats to be terribly mean. 
> 
> Now I happen to loathe Umbridge, so I don't care if it is mean to 
> torment her, she deserves it. And I think that's what houyhnhm was 
> getting at. JKR creates these detestable characters who do 
despicable 
> things, and then lets her audience have the vicarious thrill of 
> glorying in their richly deserved comeuppance. 
> 
> We don't get to do this in real life. If we try, we usually end up 
in 
> a great deal of trouble. 
<SNIP>


Alla:

See above what I wrote to Nita, but I also want to add - of course 
it matters to a degree - that is why I put that our definitions of 
evil differ sometimes.

But IMO only to a degree.

Putting aside Draco and some other examples, which we may disagree 
on, I think Umbridge is a perfect one. You said it yourself - 
Umbridge is unlikely to have many fans if any ( sorry to the fans of 
the character if they exist).

She is a torturing sadist, isn't she? We can agree on that?

I do not think I want her to get what is coming because I cannot do 
it in RL. In RL I would report somebody like her, testify, do 
everything I can to make sure she ends up in jail. That would be RL 
justice.

But this is not the story about conventional types of justice, no?

So, whatever Umbridge gets - wrath of the centaurs or anything, I 
think is justice and of course I am glad that she does, you know?