Dumbledore Disgusted (was: Snape's Request gave Harry a second chance?)

[littleleahstill]

No: HPFGUIDX 175863

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "frumenta" <p_yanna at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Judy" <judy@> wrote:
>> > I was just thinking about this yesterday, and I believe it is 
yet  another of JKR's inconsistencies. (massive snip)
> The whole thing about Trelawney *knowing* that 
> > Snape heard the Prophecy seems like a plothole to me. 
 
> Mim:
> 
> Dumbledore didn't know exactly how the Prophecy would work but he 
> wanted Voldemort to act and go after that baby who had powers that 
> he didn't know. Otherwise he could have stopped Snape. It appears 
to 
> me that at that point Dumbledore had been running out of ideas so 
> the thought of this newborn saviour who the Dark Lord would mark 
as 
> his equal and who would have extraordinary powers, was actually 
> needed.
> 
> Perhaps the Potters were never meant to survive.
>(snip)

Leah:

So we have either Puppet master Dumbledore or inconsistent JKR. I 
think there may also be a third possibility, Que Sera, Sera 
Dumbledore.

If  PMDD is intended, then I would agree with Mim that DD was 
wanting somehow to kick start the prophecy.   It is a commonplace of 
classical myths, Perseus, Oedipus, Paris, that a prophecy is 
activated  by an attempt to avoid it.  This is of course exactly how 
Voldemort reacts.  By trying to destroy Prophecy Boy he marks him as 
his equal, and sows the seeds of destruction.  This reading of 
course has the problem of making DD as culpable in the deaths of 
James and Lily as Snape himself.   We don't get any hint of this in 
DH, whereas we are shown other instances of DD's flaws, so I think 
it is probably not the right interpretation.   If I am wrong, then 
Snape becomes the scapegoat for DD's guilt, takes it entirely on 
himself and eventually redeems himself (making Snape rather than DD 
or Harry the Aslan-like figure in the books.  I am not sure that 
this would have been consciously intended by the author :)).

Taking the third option second:  it is a given fact that Snape has 
heard some of the prophecy.   With the information DD has on that 
night, he can surmise that this may be (a) very helpful in the fight 
against VM, (b) very unhelpful or (c) ultimately  of no importance 
at all.   If he obliviates Snape's memory,  then he destroys those 
possibilities.  Having Snape arrested and mulling over the prophecy 
probably wouldn't give DD any more possibilities. If Snape is sent 
to Azkaban and has his mind destroyed by Dementors, then possibility 
(a) is lost (though I suppose DD could himself have let the 
prophecy `slip out' himself later if he thought it necessary.).  
There is a two-thirds chance that letting Snape go will either be 
helpful or simply won't matter and a one-third chance that it will 
damage the fight against VM, so why not let Snape go?   QSS 
Dumbledore doesn't have the same level of responsibility for the 
subsequent events as  PMDD, but he must have some. 

A major problem with either PMDD or QSSDD is:  how exactly did DD 
know how much of the prophecy Snape had heard?   If  DD used 
Leglimancy, then Snape was not yet the superb Occlumens of OOTP.  DD 
can hardly have asked, "So..what exactly did you hear, Severus?' 
This would not be a problem if Snape only told DD about the 
eavesdropping on his return; he could produce a pensieve memory if 
necessary.    

On the whole, I tend to agree with  Judy that we have authorial 
inconsistency/plot hole here.  In HBP,  JKR needed to tell us that 
Draco had solved his little difficulty, and also a reason for DD and 
Harry not to be able to discuss this properly.   The encounter with  
Trelawney effected this, allowed there to be an episode of throwing 
doubt on Snape's motives to prepare us for ESESnape on the Astronomy 
Tower, and as a further bit of icing gave Harry yet another reason 
for hating Snape.    I think it quite possible that having resolved 
all this very satisfactorily, the author didn't reflect on what 
questions Trelawney's memories raised about DD's motives.

Leah