MuggleNet - Godrics Hollow Theory.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 163464

---  Kemper <iam.kemper at ...> wrote:
>
> > sherry wrote:
> >
> > I believe the charm was broken, the moment Peter told
> > Voldemort where to find the Potters. Once the secret
> > keeper betrays the secret, I don't think the charm is
> > in effect any longer.
> 
> Kemper now:
> I'm inferring you to mean that the Fidelius Charm works
> based on theloyalty of the Secret Keeper.  ... It would
> take away the emotional power of the spell, making the
> spell's strength based on the Peter's loyalty to the 
> Potters rather than the Potter's faith in Peter.
> 
>  ... the Potters made Peter their SK based on Sirius'
> suggestion.  And they had every faith in him.
> 

bboyminn:

Yes, but 'faith' and 'loyalty' are a two way street.
The Fidelius, or as I see it, the 'Fidelity' Charm is 
based in trust. The Potter's trusted Peter with their 
lives, and in accepting that trust, Peter is implying a
true and deep loyalty to the Potters. When Peter betrayed
the Potters, he betrayed their loyalty. He breached the 
'fidelity' of the Charm, and the Charm was broken. 

Fidelity -

"Faithfulness to obligations, duties, or observances."(1)

"Continuing loyalty to a person, cause, or belief."(2)

"Fidelity implies the /unfailing/ fulfillment of one's 
duties and obligations, and strict adherence to vows or
promises"(1)

(from (1)American Heritage Dictionary 3rd Ed; and 
(2)Concise Oxford English Dictionary 11th Ed)

Clearly, Peter was neither 'faithful' or 'loyal', and 
did not adhere strictly to his Vows and Promises. That
supreme act of IN-fidelity breached the Charm. 

Now the writer of this particular essay believes that
the Secret Charm disolved because the Secret became
false. A Secret can't be a Secret when it is not 
true, especially in a case like this.

While I agree in principle, I don't agree that it applies
in this case. Trying to say the Potter's Secret was not
true is pretty shakey when Harry presence is factored in.

But it works in my mind for the current status of
#12 Grimmauld Place. Regardless of whether the intent
was temporary, at this point in time (as far as we know),
Grimmauld Place is NOT the Headquarters of the Order, 
meaning the secret as revealed to Harry is no longer 
true. When that Secret became false, the Secret Keeper 
Charm on Grimmauld Place was broken (in my view). 

So, in my view, the Secret Keeper Charm can be broken
by two methods; 1.) A total and complete faithless
breach of fidelity 2.) when the Secret is no longer
valid or true. I believe the first case applies to
Godrics Hollow and the second case applies to 
Grimmauld Place. 

Other than that, I would speculate the only way the
Secret Keeper Charm could be removed is by one of the
original participating parties; the subject, the Keeper,
or they hypothetical 'Binder'. 

> 
> > Violet wrote:
> > I do believe that ... Lily and James wouldn't refuse
> > to have [Dumbledore] know about their whereabouts. 
> > ... umbledore didn't hear the address directly from
> > the Secret-Keeper's mouth, but perhaps he read it ...
> > Having been handed the small piece of paper, he 
> > showed Hagrid as well. ...
> >
> >
> > Sherry replied:
> > I don't think Dumbledore could have shown the paper
> > to Hagrid. ... if Hagrid wasn't meant to know, I 
> > imagine he couldn't have read the paper. ...
> 
> 
> Kemper now:
> I'm not quite sure what you're saying, Sherry.
> 
> It sounds like you are saying that if Dumbledore had a
> piece of paper with the Potter location written on it
> that Dumbledore /could not/ > have shown the piece of 
> paper to Hagrid because the secret was not written for
> Hagrid.  If that's so, why would Moody burn the piece 
> of paper with 12 Grimmauld Place written on it?
> 
> If you are saying that Dumbledore /would not/ share 
> the paper with Hagrid without explicit instruction to 
> do so ... then I totally agree.  ...
> 
> Kemper
>


bboyminn:

You both seem to be laboring under the assumption that
any pieces of paper with the Secret on them would just
be laying around, or that they would be sent by a 
means as unsecure as the mail (owl-mail). 

We have one example, Moody had a paper from Dumbledore
specifically to show Harry, and once that task was 
accomplished, the paper was destroyed. 

If say Sirius gave Dumbledore a piece of paper with
the Secret on it, I think he would have taken it 
back immediately after Dumbledore read it, or he would
have made sure it was immediately destroyed. He WOULD
NOT have allowed Dumbledore to keep the piece of paper.

I do think a few people knew the Secret because I believe
the Potters needed a degree of support; news, friends,
food, etc.... So, reasonably some people knew, exactly 
who knew is another matter. Certainly Dumbledore, but
who else is open to speculation.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn