CHAPDISC: HBP 29, The Phoenix Lament

[cuimedono]

No: HPFGUIDX 164092

<snip superb summary>


> 1.<...>Did any of their reactions particularly inspire 
> sympathy in you? Which character reacted most similarly to you? Is 
> that character one you normally sympathise or identify with? 

sarah:
I identify most with Ginny and see her reaction as the most
realisticly portrayed of any character (taking into account the
different circumstances for each).  She has two issues to deal with:
1) Harry, and 2) Bill.  She was never very close to DD, and so her
care is not for his death, per se, but for the effect it has on those
she loves.  I have always been kind of uncertain about DD.  I do not
think he is evil by any means, but I dislike many facets of his
personality that we have been shown and cannot feel connected to him
in the same way I do with the other characters.  I think it is
somewhat similar for Ginny, as she never knew DD in the way Harry did.
 Her reaction to Bill is also similar to how I believe I would
respond: She is sad, and in shock at the situation, but she is able to
take comfort in her family and even is able to look at the scene with
Fleur and Molly with humor and surprise.  I think this is normal when
one is confronted with something so out of one's control.

>  
> 2. (Take off your DDM!Snape hats for this one, please.) <...>

sarah:
It won't come off, not until I read DH and am proven otherwise.
  
> 3. Assuming Hermione's account of events in Snape's office is 
> accurate, what do you make of her and Luna's gullibility?<...>

sarah:
Hermione is the one who relates the story.  I would have liked to have
read Luna's version of it, even if it were similar to Hermione's.  It
struck me as remarkably in-character for Hermione for HBP.  She says:
"I was so stupid, Harry!" and "...and, oh, it's so obvious now, Snape
must have Stupified Flitwick, but we didn't realize, Harry, we didn't
realize, we just let Snape go!" (US, harback 619).  I think Hermione's
been rather clueless throughout HBP, as evidenced by the Ron and
Lavender issue.  So, while I do not think Snape did anything to
Flitwick that he did not need to do in order to help (yes, help) DD
and his mission, I am very disappointed in Hermione's behavior.  It
is, perhaps, her growing up some, too.  Instead of questioning Snape
or Flitwick as I imagine she would have done back in PS/SS in order to
know everything possible about the situation, she trusts them, in her
eyes makes a mistake by doing so, and then takes the responsibility
therefore.  As for the DA, they're kids.  I'm not much older than they
are, and I can scarcely imagine being in a battle like the one
described.  I think the DA had much more potential than was used,
because it did not unite the houses, and so given that, the job the
kids did was above and beyond what could be expected.
  
> 4. What do you make of McGonagall saying (of Snape) "He must have 
> known a spell we didn't [
] After all, he was the Defence against 
> the Dark Arts teacher?"<...>

sarah:
This is one of those times when we need to hold an author to task for
his or her writing.  I do not think there is anything more behind that
statement than the implication that Snape knows his DADA.  However, it
is not written well.  I think JKR is human and she does the best she
can, but sometimes a thought isn't expressed well and I see this as
one of those cases.


>  
> 5. Molly doesn't give one single sign that she cares at all that 
> Dumbledore's dead, she doesn't react when McGonagall assures Arthur 
> that it's true, nor does she ask Harry or the others if they're all 
> right; she only has eyes for Bill.<...>

sarah:
She's in shock, as others have said.  It doesn't surprise me at all. 


> 6. In ch5 p92 (UK ed.) Molly says (of Bill and Fleur) "It was the 
> same last time he was powerful, people eloping right left and 
> centre –" yet Lupin seems here to be an exception, holding out 
> against this all-too-human reaction in times of war. <...>

sarah:
Lupin's always struck me as the less impulse-driven of his friends. 
He's always been different because he is a werewolf, and I think his
fears of relationships are well-founded.  he has always had to be very
careful about his change, and we know how vicious the wolf is.  I
would be surprised if he had run off with Tonks (or anyone) without
much consideration.


> 7. Do you think that the fact that Dumbledore's portrait is sleeping 
> peacefully and looking untroubled is significant? <...>

sarah:
I think the final stage in DD's master plan has been set in motion,
and he is content. If death is the next adventure, then what remains
of him in this world deserves a chance to rest.  The portrait's
quiescence also forces the other characters (McG., Harry, etc.) to
take control of the situation and rely on themselves, not on him. 


> 8. What do you make of McGonagall's statement about closing the 
> school: "
 I must say that Professor Dumbledore's murder is more 
> disturbing to me than the idea of Slytherin's monster living 
> undetected in the bowels of the castle
" <...>

sarah:
I think this is in character for the head of Gryffindor.  They're
known for their loyalty and bravery, and here McGonagall shows how
much DD meant to her in almost foolish proportions.  Note that she
does not say "A Death Eater raid is more disturbing..." --> it's DD's
murder that is.  Then you have the statement about Slytherin's monster
-- so many hints with that!  While it is clearly refering to the
basilisk, it could be read as referencing Tom Riddle himself, or even
Snape (or at least how they view Snape).


>  
> 9. What do you make of Slughorn's reaction to Dumbledore's death, 
> his shock at Snape's culpability, his ambivalence about the school 
> reopening, and his seeming reluctance that the students should stay 
> for the funeral? <...>

sarah:
I really like Slughorn.  He has his problems, of course, but I love
reading his scenes.  We see him making a mistake with Tom, and we see
him again admitting a mistake with Snape.  There is a lot more to him
than a candied-pineapple eater.  I hope he stays on for Book Seven,
and don't see any reason why he would not.  He is vital to Horcrux
info, to filling Potions and Head of House for Slytherin.  Getting rid
of him would be pointless.  He's changed a lot from the wizard we met
at the beginning of the book.

 
> 10. Do you think Harry was right not to tell McGonagall where he 
> went with Dumbledore? <...>

sarah:
Yes, I think Harry was very much in the right not to say anything.  It
was so... Gryffindor of him, too, in ever sense of the word.  I have
noticed that people seem to be coming into the characteristics of
their Houses more and more as the books go on, and I think that this
will allow for a united front in Book Seven that will be the strongest
possible.  I hope that the portraits do not betray Harry's secret, and
I also hope that McGonnagal does not ask them.  I could see them
advising her in the right direction, but to come out and tell her
directly about the Horcruxes would be disappointing.  Harry has moved
beyond needing someone in the Headmaster/-mistress roll to "help" him
- this is his fight, now, and he must see to it himself.

  
> 11. Do you find it surprising that McGonagall didn't ask how Harry & 
> co. knew that Malfoy was in the room of requirement? <...>

sarah:
There are so many things going on right now, and she is trying her
best to take some measure of control.  She trusts Harry and his
friends - why should she suspect there is some (suspicious) reason for
them having the information?  They wouldn't have been workign with
Draco, and so it is safe for her to accept the information and let go
of the how.

  
> 12. Hagrid is inconsolable; did you find his reaction to 
> Dumbledore's death moving? We don't get to see what he thinks of 
> Snape's apparent treachery, do you think this omission is 
> conspicuous? <...>

sarah:
It's moving in-character, but it didn't do too much for me.  I think
that Hagrid knows more than the others, especially in regards to Snape
and DD.  I think his tears are also for the fact that things are now
in full-swing: This is It, there is no turning back now.  I'm
surprised, though, that he didn't let anything slip about Snape this
time, as he tends to do.  Hagrid is always letting some bit of
information out that he was not supposed to.  Of course, the timing
would have been bad (at the end of the book), but it did seem a bit
out of character.  That said, the fact that he doesn't call for
Snape's blood or offer to go hunt him in a fit of rage is super
important.  Hagrid is such an emotional being - and here he does not
show any sign that he is displeased with Snape.

 
> 13. McGonagall will refer the decision to close the school to the 
> governors; do you think that we have any canon to go on in guessing 
> whether Hogwarts will reopen or not? Do you think that JKR ought to 
> tell us one way or another before book 7?

sarah:
The only cannon I can think of is with COS (and the history of the
basilisk), and GOF after Cedric's death.  I think the school will
reopen.  It has to.  There are so many characters involved that it
would be impossible to unite them in another venue: not everyone
involved is part of the Order, there are so many relics and items at
Hogwarts that they will need for the next book, etc.  I do not want
JKR to reveal her plans.

  
> 14. Do you find any of the characters' reactions to Dumbledore's 
> death suspicious? <...>

sarah:
The one I find most suspicious is Hagrid's.  See above.

  
> 15. Did it surprise you that there was no mention of the 
> Headmasters' and Headmistresses' portraits' reactions to McGonagall 
> asking where Harry went with Dumbledore? <...>

sarah:
The portraits always seem to be able to sense when they need to help,
and do so no matter how unenthusiastically.  I think they realize this
is a time for everyone who is still alive to take control and work
things through.


> 16. "And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix 
> had gone, had left Hogwarts for good, just as Dumbledore had left 
> the school, had left the world 
 had left Harry." Did you find this 
> ending to the chapter poignant? Does it wear off after the sixth re-
> read? If we see Fawkes again in book 7, do you think we will get to 
> know him as a character in his own right, or will he always be 
> associated with and symbolise Dumbledore?

sarah:
I cried when I first read this.  I don't think it is true, however. 
DD has not "left" Harry, not really, but it does show that now Harry
will have to make his own choices.  I hope than some of those
decisions will be ones completely uninfluenced by DD, but that is
unlikely.  Fawkes will come back, I believe, to help Harry in the
final battle, or if Harry dies, then to mourn him, too.