Question about the prophecy and a thought about Ginny

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 171208

> lizzyben:
> 
> Well, this is a pretty good reconstruction, but it still doesn't
> resolve a number of contradictions. First, DD says that he had already
> turned to leave the room when the prophecy occurred, while T says that
> Snape "interrupted" in the middle of the interview.

Pippin:
As far as Trelawney recollects it probably *wasn't*  the end 
of the interview.  Trelawney wouldn't remember everything
up to the exact moment she went into her trance. People who
have lost consciousness generally don't recollect what
happened just before because  their short term memories 
don't get transferred to long term memory. Harry has turned
to go when she starts spouting off  in PoA. She apparently 
doesn't remember that she's already dismissed him, because
she apologizes to him for drifting off instead of wondering 
what he's still doing there.

Lizzyben:
 Second, DD implies
> that the spy was detected & "thrown from the building" before the full
> prophecy was given, but T says that Snape was outside the door the
> entire time. Finally, I have to ask why it is even necessary to jump
> through hoops trying to resolve the conflicting versions. Why do they
> conflict at all?

Pippin:
Dumbledore obviously didn't want to reveal that he knew the 
identity of the eavesdropper, and meant to head off any questions
about it. I'm sure we'll hear more about JKR's rationale for this,
but it parallels DD's not telling anyone what he'd learned about
Riddle, and not wanting Harry to let on that he'd heard what
happened to Neville's parents. "[Neville] has the right to let
people know, when he is ready."  

Lizzyben:
Even if you believe that Snape only heard the first half, you
> still have to wonder why DD allowed him to leave w/that vital
> information after being presented w/the eavesdropper.
<snip>
> I'm sure that Snape isn't as bad as Sirius said, but my point was
> simply that Snape was in a position to have contact w/known Death
> Eaters. 

Pippin:
If Snape's old gang had been known Death Eaters at the
time of the Prophecy, they'd've been in Azkaban already. In
fact many of us think they were exposed because of 
Snape's defection. 

Lizzyben:
And, more than that, Snape's *behavior* was extremely
> suspicious. He was blatantly listening at a door, spying on a
> resistance leader, during a time of war. And his excuse was lame &
> unbelievable - he went up the wrong stairs? 

Pippin:
Snape was undoubtedly already a  skilled occlumens, since 
Voldemort would not be so foolish as to send someone to spy
on Dumbledore without this skill. Telling an obvious lie
and then making it appear sincere through occlumency would
be a bit of a give away.  But if Dumbledore discovered through
legilimency the more plausible story that Snape was hoping for
a job at Hogwarts, he'd have little reason to doubt it.  


Lizzyben:
DD thought the prophecy was so important, he sheltered 
Trelawney for 16 years to keep it from LV.

Pippin:
I thought he sheltered her to keep her from ending up like
Bertha Jorkins or the Longbottoms. 

> > > lizzyben: 
> > > "My - our - one stroke of good fortune was that the 
eavesdropper was detected only a short way into the prophecy a
nd thrown from the building... <snip>
DD first says it was "his" good fortune that VD only heard the first
half of the prophecy, then swiftly changes that to "our". 

> What I'm drawing attention to is the fact that DD refers to it as a
> "stroke of good fortune" that LV heard the first half of the prophecy.
>  Now, why would he say this if he never wanted LV to know this
> information?

Pippin:
It's his *one* stroke of good fortune, the only good thing
about a bad business. It's good that Voldemort heard the first
half and not the whole thing, because otherwise he might not
have done the things that gave Harry the power to defeat him.
In that case, Voldemort would be in a far stronger position. He
might already be ruling the wizarding world, and Harry would not
be better off even if he and his parents had somehow managed 
to survive so far. 

I think Dumbledore's rephrase points up the fact that he has 
never shared this information with anyone before. No one else
can know what a stroke of good fortune it is that Voldemort didn't
hear the rest of the prophecy because no one else knows what
it was.

Lizzyben:
Both of
> them were in the Order, an organization that asks members to be
> willing to sacrifice their lives in the cause of duty. DD would
> consider this to be a supreme sacrifice for the cause of good; a
> sacrifice they agreed to by joining the Order. Of course, this also
> makes DD the ultimate arbiter of right & wrong, but he's used to that.

Pippin:
If Dumbledore considered that he did a good and noble thing
(by supposedly leaking this information on purpose to LV) as
well as a highly clever one, why would he keep it secret  from Harry?
He wants Harry to share his values, and he has never been shy about
insisting on his own POV when they differ. If he was worried about
alienating Harry, would he have criticized Sirius, or defended Snape,
much less Petunia? 

>
> lizzyben:
> 
> DD knows & expects that LV will rise again. He doesn't desire the
> ultimate defeat of LV? He doesn't desire a happy, normal life for
> Harry? Or himself? Or peace for the Wizarding World? The deepest, most
> desperate desire of DD's heart is - socks? If you believe that, I've
> got a bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in. :) Even 11-year-old
> Harry doesn't buy it. 

Pippin:
I'm sure Dumbledore is good enough at occlumency to fool the mirror,
if he wishes. It will show him only those desires he thinks too trivial 
to suppress.

Pippin