What Harry "knows", Was Why we'll get no further revelations Snape was Evil

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 169845

 
> colebiancardi: 
> > Oh yes, it could explain Snape's loyalty.  The trust DD had in Snape
> > is a very important factor.  If ESE, the question is how did Snape
> > hook-wink DD?  If DDM, Harry needs to know this.  Also, LV doesn't
> > trust Snape.  He does not.  LV has Wormtail hiding out in Snape's 
> > lair and LV did not confide in Snape about Draco's plans at all.  
> > What was explained in HBP was Harry's POV.   DD stated that Snape 
> > had remorse over the prophecy, but DD never stated WHAT it was that 
> > made him trust Snape.  DD tells Harry back in GoF, when Harry asked 
> > him about the trust factor, that was something between him & Snape 
> > and not Harry. So, there is something more - because the prophecy 
> > is Harry's business.
> 
> Dana:
> DD was never going to tell Harry who had brought the prophecy to LV 
> and considered Snape's remorse enough to keep the information from 
> Harry forever and thus making the reason's for that trust something 
> between Snape and himself. 

colebiancardi:

In your opinion, of course.  The point I was making was that
Dumbledore told Harry it had nothing to do with him & it was between
Snape & DD.  Now, since Snape's deliverance of the prophecy to LV did
cause Harry's parents deaths.  That has a lot to do with Harry; it
isn't just between DD & Snape

> 
> DD did explain the reason for Snape's return in HBP when he 
> specifically states he believed that it was Snape's greatest regret 
> and the reason that he returned (HBP pg 513 UKed chapter "the seer 
> overheard"). Harry's point of view has nothing to do with it because 
> it does not change what DD said, we witnessed what DD said.

colebiancardi:

IMHO, no, DD didn't state that WAS the reason why Snape turned his
back on LV and became a spy for Dumbledore.  Harry interrupted
Dumbledore in mid-sentence - about the reason why he turned (not
returned).  DD never stated that the "reason why Snape turned his back
on LV was the prophecy".  Harry's own POV does have a lot to do with
it, because he offered that lame excuse up at the end of HBP to the
others and they were kinda disbelieving it as well.

> Dana:
> Snape never betrayed the trust DD had in him before the Potters died 
> and afterwards there was no reason for Snape to betray DD but 
> something changed and that was LV's return to power. LV's trust is 
> not as unconditional as that of DD but he nevertheless shared Draco's 
> task with Snape. Most Snape fans believe that DD confided in Snape in 
> everything but DD never did that with anyone, he probably shared the 
> most with Harry.


colebiancardi:

huh?  You think that DD trusted Snape when he was a deatheater?  Where
does Dumbledore state that?  DD knew Snape was a Deatheater - in GoF,
DD states that "Snape is no more of a Deatheater than I am" - but this
is after Snape turned his back on the Deatheaters.

I am sure that DD held a lot back from Harry and a lot back from
Snape.  I think that Snape knew more on certain things than Harry did.
 When Harry tries to tell DD about Snape & Draco, DD cuts him off.  I
don't think that DD shared even half of what he knew with Harry.  I
think that Snape knows a lot more, only thru the shear number of YEARS
that Snape has worked with DD and the lack of years on Harry's side.


> So actually LV sharing information with Snape on an 
> assignment that Snape was not even part of, is an indication LV did 
> trust Snape. 

colebiancardi:

ok...So, the fact that LV would kill anyone who talked about it - that
is all about trust as well?

Again, LV doesn't trust Snape.  He questions him and he performs
Legimins on Snape, which is why Snape has to guard himself with
Occulmacy.  That doesn't sound like a trusting soul to me.

> Dana:
> Still someone's trust is not enough to determine Snape's loyalties, 
> unless you want to suggest that DD blackmailed Snape and keep him in 
> check by those means but that is not what trust is (or at least not 
> DD's trust).  <snipping>
> 

colebiancardi:

of course DD didn't use blackmail or an UV on Snape to entrust his
loyalty.  But neither did DD take Snape at face value either.  DD
isn't stupid;  Unlike Draco, DD recruited Snape to spy on LV and
become a double agent.  Draco was just going to go into hiding. 
Snape's loyalty had to be something more than a long face & a story
about "remorse" over the prophecy.


> Dana:
> So now  we only have to wait for Snape to make an attempt on Lupin's
> life and 
> Snape has eliminated every single person he thought to have 
> responsibility in that night's events.

colebiancardi:

WOW!  Snape is not responsible for the death of Sirius.  Snape has
never tried to kill Lupin, and he had plenty of opportunities in PoA
with the monthly potion.  Snape delivered 1/2 of the prophecy to LV,
but by turning to DD, ensured his place, IMHO, that he was working
against LV and tried to prevent the deaths of the Potters.