Neither Harry nor his Scar is a Horcrux (Was Re: Voldemort's Age)

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 170257

> > Geoff:

> > ... A Horcrux is a  specific container ...for the soul
> > fragment, created by the wizard. If he does not perform
> > the magic to create one, then there "ain't one guv".

> bboyminn:
 
> I have to agree with Geoff. Let us look at the first
> Horcrux. In the summer of his 15 year, Tom Riddle
> kill his father and grandparents. However, during
> the next school year of Tom's 16th year, he is
> asking Slughorn about Horcruxes and is wearing this
> father's ring. We do know the ring was eventually a
> Horcrux.

<SNIP>

> ... the fount of all knowledge about the connection 
> between Harry and Voldemort, as well as our source of 
> knowledge about Horcruxes, an additional fount of 
> magical knowledge, and our authority on the general 
> Harry/Voldemort dynamic is all Dumbledore, and 
> Dumbledore, while he seems to understand the connection, 
> gives no indication that he thinks the bit of Voldemort 
> in Harry is a piece of Voldemort's soul. 

<SNIP>

Goddlefrood:

I agree that Harry is certainly not an intentionally created 
Horcrux. Having said that I would not commend the view that 
he or his scar may be one accidentally either, at this point, 
that is. You'll see why shortly.

Should I be proven incorrect in a few weeks and it is written 
that Harry or his scar were a Horcrux either intentionally or 
otherwise then I will not be eating my hat, but would feel 
like tracking down the Sorting Hat and eating it.

As an idea a Horcrux is not an entirely new concept. There 
are legends from several cultures, notably Eastern European 
and Indian of usually magicians having an exterior soul. The 
difference is that in the HP world it is possible to have 
multiple soul rents, whereas in these legends the soul remains 
whole.

One such legend is that concerning Koschei the Deathless. His 
soul was encased inside an egg inside a box in a cave guarded 
by a dragon or something along those lines, which is where the 
idea must surely have come from. Or possibly the Indian one 
and the parrot, whose names escapes me (both the wizard and 
the parrot, sadly).

It is quite apparent that a Horcrux needn't be made at 
the same time as the act of evil inspiring it. See the 
quote above from Steve as to why. There is no indication 
of exactly what is involved, but as I've said before a 
Horcrux is simply the vessel in which the soul portion 
is kept safe. Whatever spell is involved should involve 
a sealing of the sould piece inside the thing to contain 
it, whether animate or inanimate. This is supported from 
canon only if it is accepted that the heavy locket that 
would not open was a Horcrux. The soul portion would then 
be resident inside the locket.

I am also led to believe that Harry is not a Horcrux 
because the act of placing the Horcrux in an object 
demonstrably takes place at a different time from the 
act that leads to its creation. Also Dumbledore would 
not have spared Harry the fact that he was a Horcrux 
if he (Dumbledore) suspected that Harry was one. At 
Godric's Hollow the spell cast by LV was an AK, not a 
spell to place a soul portion in a vessel for its 
containment.

When, towards the end of his days, Dumbledore frankly told 
Harry all he knew about LV's Horcruxes there was not even a 
minor hint that Dumbledore had any other Horcrux other than 
the Cup, the Locket, Nagini and something of Gryffindor's or 
Ravenclaw's in mind.

At that point in the story in HBP Dumbeldore was beyond 
hiding information from Harry relative to Horcruxes and 
if he suspected Harry or his scar could be a Horcrux he 
would certainly, IMO, have mentioned this and not only 
made a vague allusion to it by showing that a living being 
could be a Horcrux. At least that's my story.

Despite Dumbledore admitting flaws, if he suspected for a 
moment that Harry's scar was a horcrux he would either have 
told Harry or made some effort to neutralise the Horcrux 
in Harry, were it still there.

>From what little can be gathered of the split soul pieces 
(thinking particularly of the diary revenant) they appear 
to have some independent power. Harry's scar has never 
seemingly acted independently, nor btw has he in the sense 
of not being in control of himself unless possessed. You 
can throw as much canon at me as you like, even on dreams, 
this view is currently not for turning.

One problem I do see with the whole Horcrux business is that 
LV does not seem to be someone who would stop at only six 
created Horcruxes, notwithstanding his belief in the power 
of the number 7. I put forward as a speculation that he made 
more, and this may be found to be one of Dumbledore's mistakes. 
That more than the two so far accounted for in canon (the ring 
and the diary) have been destroyed is a further matter I have 
thought on.

If Harry or his scar were ever a Horcrux I also think that 
he or it no longer could be one because in POA when the 
multitudinous Dementors are swarming around he, Sirius and 
Hermione it is quite likely that the Dementor who kissed 
Harry successfully removed the piece of LV's soul in Harry 
or his scar.

It's also possible that a further Horcrux has been destroyed, 
even if it is not thought likely that the above little thought 
has merit. That would be a surprise to this reader, as it would 
also no doubt be to Harry, who has the mantra of the locket, 
the cup, Nagini and something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's 
rattling around in his (Horcrux free) mind.

Goddlefrood, who would like a resolution of Nagini's Horcrux, 
if she indeed is one, to lead to her being free to live in 
Burma, Brazil or any other B country of your choice.