Why DD did not ask Snape to kill him. (extremely long)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165934


Dana wrote:
> <snip> Okay the second argument of many Snape fans is that Snape is
doing this on DD's order to save Draco from becoming a murderer. This
necessitates the question; DD's death is serving Draco how? The boy
can't come back to school for his implications in attempted murder of
Kathy, Ron (even if they were not the targets) and Dumbledore, Imperio
Madam Rosemerta, and letting DE's into the castle.  He can be sent to
Azkaban for his involvement in this if the MoM ever catches him, and
oh my he is still at LV's mercy and with only Snape, who is now known
as a murder, to vouch for him -- and this is helping Draco, how? <snip> 

Carol responds:
Hi, Dana. Rants feel good, don't they? All of us feel like venting our
feelings sometimes when the other side just doesn't get our point of
view. And I understand why Harry's point of view would seem like the
one the reader is supposed to see as valid. He's the hero, after all.

At any rate, those of us who don't see from Harry's point of view
aren't being obstinate or trying to upset those who do. We're just
trying to explore the canon and see where it leads. All of us, whether
we're Snape fans or not, are trying as best we can to find answers
that make sense to us, and it's fun and profitable to bounce them off
each other because doing so helps us to see the holes in our own
theories and speculations. For me, Snape's actions in the previous
books (Harry's pov to the contrary) point to Snape as Dumbledore's
man, so killing Dumbledore is either out of character, completely
inconsistent with Snape as he's already been depicted, or they require
an explanation consistent with Dumbledore's man that can be supported
by canon. That's what I'm trying to find. I trust Dumbledore's
judgment over Harry's, as well. I understand that you don't, but for
me it's an important consideration. 

I've already examined what I think Snape's motives are in taking the
Unbreakable Vow (to protect Draco). Certainly, his and Narcissa's
first concern is Draco's life. Both of them (rightly) see Draco as
being in great danger if he fails in his mission. Narcissa may also
see Draco as in danger of being killed by Dumbledore (Snape would know
that isn't the case.) If Snape is Dumbledore's man, he would know that
Dumbledore wouldn't want Draco to commit murder, or be placed in a
position where he would be forced to do so. So, if Snape is
Dumbledore's man and if he's already talked the situation over with DD
(not knowing about the Vanishing Cabinets, only that Draco's "job" is
to kill Dumbledore), he would be under orders to do anything he could
to protect Draco, to keep him from killing or being killed. Taking the
first two provisions of the Unbreakable Vow fits perfectly with this
objective. Even the third one can be explained if Snape's job is not
only to protect Draco from harm and death but to keep him from
committing murder at all costs. And the cost to Snape is great,
whether he dies or commits the murder himself. As far as I can see, no
man who's out for himself would subject himself to such a risk. (I
don't pretend to know any more than you do about Snape or JKR's
intentions for the series. I'm just presenting a scenario that makes
sense to me.)

As for what Draco would get out of it, Draco is furious at the end of
OoP that his father has been arrested, furious with both Harry and
Dumbledore. Just as Harry wants revenge against Snape, Draco wants
revenge against anyone responsible for his father's humiliation. (Good
thing he doesn't know Snape's role in sending the Order to the MoM!)

Here's Draco in OoP:

"'You're dead, Potter.' . . . Malfoy looked angrier than Harry had
ever seen him. . . . [H]is pale, pointed face [was] contorted with rage.

"'You're going to pay. . . . *I'm* going to make you pay for what
you've done to my father. . . . You think you're such a big man,
Potter. You wait. I'll have you. You can't land my father in
prison--'" (OoP Am. ed. 851).

Draco is furious, bent on revenge. Conveniently, as we discover later,
he knows about the Vanishing Cabinet providing a means of entry into
Hogwarts. Can he be already thinking about a means of bringing DEs
into Hogwarts? That would be revenge, all right, and not only Harry
but Dumbledore would pay.

Draco and his friends attempt to ambush Harry and his friends on the
Hogwarts Express but don't get a chance to say anything because
they're immediately attacked by DA members (864). We can assume,
however, that the attack has done nothing to change his feelings and
may well have intensified them.

We've already seen Draco, in GoF, gloating about the Dark Lord being
back: "'You've picked the losing side, Potter! I warned you! I told
you not to hang around with riffraff like this! Too late now, Potter!
they'll be the first to go, now the Dark Lord's back! Mudbloods and
Mugglelovers first!" (729) Like Regulus Black before him, he
associates the Dark Lord's agenda with pureblood supremacy. He also,
like Wormtail before him, wants to be associated with the winning side.

Now, in HBP, he has actually joined up (or been recruited, take your
pick) and has a "job" to do for the Dark Lord, which he is taking very
seriously (and, unlike the adults, actually believes that he can
accomplish). We see in the scene in Madam Malfoy's shop that his
anti-"Mudblood" prejudices remain in place. We see him in Knockturn
Alley threatening Borgin with "retribution" via Fenrir Greyback if
Borgin doesn't give the "problem" his full attention. It's clear in
hindsight that the Vanishing Cabinet plan is already in operation, and
at least one DE, a terrifying one, is involved. 

On the Hogwarts Express, Draco hints to his friends that he's moving
on to "bigger and better things" than Hogwarts and asks them whether
the Dark Lord will care how many OWLs or NEWTs anyone has, and he
answers himself, "Of course, he isn't It'll be all about the kind of
service he received, the level of devotion he was shown" (151). and
then he states openly that the Dark Lord has assigned him a "job"
(152). So Draco's "devotion" to the Dark Lord, taking his father's
place as a Death Eater, seems to have merged with his desire for
revenge, which involves the "job" (killing the old "Muggle lover," as
he calls Dumbledore in CoS) and the "plan" (getting DEs into Hogwarts
as backup).

As for Harry, he's now small potatoes. Draco Petrifies him to make him
fall out of the luggage rack in his Invisibility Cloak, stamps hard on
Harry's face ("That's for my father"), then covers him with his
Invisibliity Cloak so he won't be found and treads on his fingers (154).

For the remainder of the book, except for unavoidable encounters with
harry (including the Sectumsempra scene, where he retaliates furiously
after Harry sees him crying in desperation), his concern is with his
"job" and his "plan." He *has* to kill Dumbledore, which he can't do
without fixing the Vanishing Cabinet and getting the DEs into Hogwarts
(the opal necklace and poisoned mead are obvious failures) or he and
his family will be killed.

When Draco first commits himself to his mission, he has no doubt of
his success, no doubt that he's on the winning side. The last thing on
his mind is being sent to Azkaban or being a fugitive from justice.
Later, his focus becomes his own survival. He must succeed or die
along with his parents. Again, Azkaban and being a fugitive seems
never to have entered his mind.

Dana wrote:
> Maybe Draco will be given a second chance (because LV is in such a
good mood now DD is gone), and LV will find someone else for him to
kill. Let see if Snape is still bound to the UV this time and do it
for Draco again and again and again. <snip>

Carol responds:
Snape has committed himself to watch over and protect Draco, as he
does throughout the school year, trying to find out what he's up to,
dissuading him from using "amateurish" tactics, saving him from
Harry's Sectumsempra. Clearly, he is also reporting to Dumbledore. (I
won't get into the argument in the forest, which we hear about only in
fragmented form from Hagrid, whose conclusions about it are unlikely
to be accurate.) Until the DEs, Draco, and Dumbledore are together on
the tower, the third provision (which Snape perhaps hoped would not be
triggered) does not come into play.

Dumbledore has already managed to persuade Draco that he's not a
killer, or at least bring him to a point where he's literally
incapable of any action, either killing DD or completely lowering the
wand. Snape pushes him out of the way, relieving him of the necessity
to kill Dumbledore. But Snape himself is bound by the vow, bound to
protect Draco and bound to "do the deed" if it appears that Draco will
fail. Draco *has* failed (though he unwittingly forced Snape's hand by
bringing the DEs into Hogwarts). Snape hesitates, not raising his wand
 when DD speaks his name or even when they make eye contact and his
expression changes to one of hatred and revulsion. He doesn't speak.
Dumbledore says "Severus, please . . ." and only then does he cast
what appears to be an AK and send DD over the ramparts to his death.
If he had *wanted* to do so, surely he would have killed DD
immediately, gloating first. He would have seen no need to order the
DEs out of Hogwarts, no reason to stop the DE from Crucioing Harry
later or to deflect Harry's spells rather than Stupefying him or
sending them back onto the caster with a Protego. It's just not as
simple as it appears. There are too many unanswered questions, from
the meaning of "Severus, please. . . ." to the unusual behavior of the AK.

You mentioned the hippogryff, which doesn't attack until the very end
of the duel with Harry, when Snape finally has enough and hits Harry
with something like a stinging hex and disarms him. That's another
question for which we have differing answers. Why hex him at that
point when he hasn't done so earlier? I'd say that, for one thing, his
nerves are frazzled and he's furious, not to mention the suppressed
anguish that we see for one moment when he's compared with the dog in
the burning house. For another, time is pressing. The vow to protect
Draco may still be in effect, and, IMO, he's going to have to explain
to Voldemort that the boy did his part by getting the DEs into
Hogwarts against all probablilty and making the death of Dumbledore
possible.

As for the third provision still being in effect, I don't think so. It
was specifically about "the deed [singular] that the Dark Lord has
ordered Draco to perform" (36). The provision to protect Draco may not
have a time limit, but the others have, presumably, expired now that
the mission has been accomplished.

Carol, wondering how Draco will like being "protected" now that he's
seventeen and, by WW standards, a man and how either he or Snape will
fare now that they've been forced into Voldemort's camp